installing a stud frame on a concrete floor for a partition wall.....

[Stephen]

I am installing a stud partition wall in a room that is ground floor and has a concrete floor.

First part of the job is obviously to screw the 2.0 metre long 4 inch by 2 inch floor rail down to the concrete floor before doing the ceiling rail and the 5 vertical rails.

There is an existing DPM under the concrete floor.

How deep can I drill the concrete floor for rawlplugs without accidentally puncturing the existing buried DPM and causing a damp floor?

House was built in 1986 if that helps with the building regs at the time.

Or am I resigned to using "sticks like swearword" or "No More Nails" to bond the wood rail to the concrete floor? *big grin*

Regards,

Stephen.

[Stephen]

I am installing a stud partition wall in a room that is ground floor and has a concrete floor.

First part of the job is obviously to screw the 2.0 metre long 4 inch by 2 inch floor rail down to the concrete floor before doing the ceiling rail and the 5 vertical rails.

There is an existing DPM under the concrete floor.

How deep can I drill the concrete floor for rawlplugs without accidentally puncturing the existing buried DPM and causing a damp floor?

House was built in 1986 if that helps with the building regs at the time.

Or am I resigned to using "sticks like swearword" or "No More Nails" to bond the wood rail to the concrete floor? *big grin*

Regards,

Stephen.

[The Natural Philosopher]

This has appeared twice

Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83 X-Complaints-To:

X-Trace: 1387239941 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:25:41 UTC Organization: virginmedia.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:26:00 +0000

and

Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.21.33.83 X-Complaints-To:

X-Trace: 1387239774 86.21.33.83 (Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:22:54 UTC Organization: virginmedia.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:23:13 +0000

You will note that its actually been submitted twice, three minutes apart, and that it actually has two different message-IDs.

This strongly suggests that the news server is not to blame, but the senders news reader and poster is.

Which is odd, because I am using the same, and I don't get double posts.

And others here are using news.virginmedia.com and dont get double posts, either..

I wonder if the thunderbird update has messed with some peoples configurations?

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 17 December 2013 00:23 Stephen wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I would not worry about a hole the size of a plug+screw. It's a DPM not "tanking" as might be used in a celler. The amount of moisture that could escape around a screw is so next to bugger all that it will easily be dispersed when it gets to the top.

But if you are worried, modern DPMs will be under the concrete so you should have 4-5" easily.

Older DPMs were bitumen sometimes between the concrete and screed and you might have 0.75-1.5" of "safe" depth.

[Andy Burns]

Most likely the server says "I didn't quite catch that old chap" when a message is submitted, when in fact it did receive it, then either the client automatically, or the user in response to an error dialogue, sends the message ...

I'd say the server is far from blameless (any transmission system has to choose between occasional duplicates *or* occasional lost messages).

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 17 December 2013 06:37 Andy Burns wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Could it be something screwing with the message IDs causing duplication during propogation?

[stuart noble]

That is certainly the case with news.virginmedia.com. It says the message was not sent when it was. Just ignore the error messages. Seems the office junior is having a bit of trouble sorting this out

[dennis]

Posting a message is a transactional thing. If it fails the sender should be informed and then they can retry.

The sender should be able to assume it has been sent if there is no error message.

Its not like SMS where there is no way of knowing the message has got there unless someone replies.

I would guess that someone is running a multi-threaded news server that doesn't quite work. Maybe it puts stuff in the message database and then crashes the thread?

[harryagain]

Concrete floors are normally 100mm thick min. plus there will be 50mm of (foam) insulation below that. So your DPM is 150mm below the surface.

[Andy Burns]

Yes, and in practice that usually works well enough, but you can't eliminate dupes *and* missing messages. Do you wait for an ack? How long do you wait? Do you ack the ack? Do you ack the ack of the ack? Do you wait longer for each level of ack?

Some networks have proper delivery receipts for SMS, I believe orange charge for them now, didn't use to charge when I was with them. Others have a mickey mouse mechanism, e.g with O2 you have to start your message with *0#

[Jim K]

Snip

As required by Apple shitephones...

Jim K

[Rick Hughes]

Choose a screw that penetrates into concrete by 50-65mm .... fully safe then .... if you use a number of these, should give you good fixing.

Could always put a bed of construction adhesive underneath and then screw .... safe & solid that way.

BTW - could use tap con as well .. save bother of plugs and lining up holes.

[Fredxxx]

Would fame fixing screws be a better bet? And be a better grip in concrete?

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 17 December 2013 08:00 Andy Burns wrote in uk.d-i-y:

It's not really that hard and is a well solved problem - basically:

Sender/Client=C:, Server=S:

C: Request-to-send S: SendHdr,MsgID C: MessageHdrs S: SendBody C: MsgBody, EndOfData S: MsgOK

Only if MsgOK is received can the client assume the message is sent.

If MsgOK is not received in a certain time (tens of seconds), the client could send a "NOOP" or "ReqStatus" to see if the session had died.

There is a microfine chance of the session collapsing when the server sends MsgOK so the message is sent but the client does not know.

In which case, a MsgID was issued by the server, so the client retrys the message but adds the MsgID in so the server will know if it is a duplicate.

Now I must go and see how NNTP actually works! But the above is a hypothetical protocol - if you can see a failure case, please feel free :)

[Roger Mills]

Foam insulation in 1986? I doubt it!

There may well be 100mm of concrete and 50mm of screed though, so no need to worry too much.

[Stephen]

Funny you mention it but I use Thunderbird as well as Virgin Media.

Recently I have been getting error messages in Thunderbird when I send messages so I end up clicking on re-send. Then I discover multiple postings later.

[John Rumm]

A penetration of a inch or so should be ample - all you are doing it stopping it slide about, its not like its going to get any "pull" on it.

In fact, I would usually part fix the foot rail with a couple of masonry nails not driven fully home. Build the wall, and then when you are done you have the option of freeing the base of the wall and moving it about if required with a lump hammer. Drive the nails home once you are content its in the right place and vertical.