Heat Recovery from Grey-water

[Onetap]

Have you ever done this? Have you any knowledge of anyone, anywhere in the entire world who has used oil to reduce the heat loss by evaporation from tepid water? Please tell us.

[Dave]

A quick question...

Do you have a power shower? If you do, you might be surprised at the amount of water that can be used during a shower. I have taken to pulling the switch cord to turn the pump off when I am soaping up and don't need the flow of water.

Dave

[Tim S]

Onetap coughed up some electrons that declared:

Yes.

Why not?

Mr Data's daughter might?...

Just because it's a "mineral oil" doesn't make it the same as Esso. Besides, I believe it's mostly the products in used engine oil that are the problem, not to mention all the other additives that go into engine oil. The additives in baby oil are generally limited to perfume, if any.

Cheers

Tim

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Tim S writes

My bathroom's a wet room with a drain in the floor, which is solid. However, it's all about to come out for a complete refurb and installation of underfloor heating. I'll run the idea of a heat recovery unit past the contractor, although the total cost of the refurb is already somewhat more than I had anticipated.

[Rod]

Onetap,

In many classes of substances there are some with bad effects. Jumping to the assumption that there is bound to be an association with testicular cancer is a bit over the top. I posted the J&J comment (obviously, I hope, re baby oil) but I could equally well have posted "extra virgin olive oil" or any of the hundreds of commercially traded oils in the food and general skin and hair care markets or in pharmaceuticals. There was nothing in the original post which mentioned oil that suggested use of contaminated waste mineral oil rather than one of the oils widely regarded as safe - whether animal, vegetable or mineral in origin. And I rather thought it implicit that choice of oil would be made on grounds of suitability not randomly.

There are many mineral oils used in, for example, pharmaceutical products such as paraffin (white and yellow soft petroleum jelly and liquid paraffin).

One reason for using baby oil is to promote their psychological well-being. Appears there are many benefits in the human contact that occurs when gently massaging.

I didn't quickly find a COSHH sheet for J&J Baby oil - how about an MSDS sheet for J&J Creamy Baby Oil?

[Jan Wysocki]

As I remember, the problem was first noticed among machinists who were wont to stuff an oily rag in the pockets of their overalls. So that was lubricating oil for lathes, milling machines and the like. That would be mineral oil straight from the refinery, rather than old sump oil.

As a sensible precaution, I've never used mineral oil on my child's skin or my skin and have never knowingly eaten semi-dry fruit coated with mineral oil, since hearing about mineral oil and testicular cancer. I don't use them, but wonder what kind of oil is used in hair and fabric "conditioners"?

I wish I'd been as quick to give up smoking, that took several more years.

[meow2222]

It does seem one or 2 people lost the plot on that. Oils are a normal part of skin & hair care.

NT

[Huge]

Indeed, the body produces them for itself.

[Mike]

Go to Antarctica and you *have* to do that. 1 minute water, then apply soap and shampoo. Then you have 1 minute to rinse off. Fortunately they don't use combi's so that nearly all the water is at the correct temperature.

[Onetap]

It is mineral oil, meaning not animal nor vegetable. It is not jojoba oil, nor olive oil, nor sunflower oil, nor rendered butter, nor whale oil, nor goosefat, nor any of the other oils that people have traditionally used to anoint their bodies or hair with. It originated in a well in Saudi Arabia or in the bed of the North Sea.

Why would anyone put mineral oil on their skin or on a baby's skin?

Getting back to the point, you shouldn't put oil into the drains, because it causes immense damage to the water treatment plant. Go and discuss it with your drainage company if you don't believe me. Water contaminated with oil should be disposed of as chemical waste.

Animal and vegetable oils biodegrade, mineral oil doesn't (not within the same time frames, anyway).

[Onetap]

It is on the link you provided. If you look at the list of ingredients you will find Mineral Oil USP which goes to;

click on the 'Human Health effects from Hazardous substances data base and it goes to;

javascript:openWindow('

')All the reported effects seem to be 'bad' and I can't think of any benefits. IMHO you can shove that stuff right up your bottom.

Oh, you do?

[meow2222]

javascript:openWindow('

')>>> All the reported effects seem to be 'bad' and I can't think of any

a long list of the possible side effects of taking it orally, injecting it and sticking it up your nose. We were discussing topical application.

These kind of reports also need to be put in perspective. Those who have read MSDS sheets for cake spice will know what I mean.

NT

[Rod]

Your objection was on the basis of adding oil, type not specified, to a bath full of hot/warm water. The idea would stand or fall regardless of the source of the oil. I just threw in baby oil as an example of something that a) is often put into baths; b) appears to be acceptable to water companies [1]; c) is expressly sold for use in the most delicate if human skin.

Anyway, "mineral oil" is something of a misnomer. The majority view appears to be that it is from animal/vegetable/micro-creature origin - just like the ones you listed.

[1] If it is so utterly unacceptable to them it is truly amazing that they have not got it banned.

[Onetap]

Yes; it's a daft idea. Oil (as in lubricating oil) forms a nasty emulsion and will foul the heat exchanger. It's insoluble and the drainage companies really don't want it because it sticks and can't easily be dissolved away.

Yes. We digress, but interesting. An everyday cosmetic oil that one might assume to be beneficial. I just don't see the point of using oil of mineral origin on people. Why? It's like painting cats.

's a waste product. Buy it at $10 a barrel, add perfume and fancy packaging, advertise it's health enhancing benefits, sell at =A35 per

100 ml. Watch the suckers queue up. Is this the original snake oil?

Given it's source, I can't see that it is any more beneficial than clean engine oil (without additives).

I off to give my first-born a wipe down with GTX.

[meow2222]

Indeed, if you want to stroke baby there is no need for oil to be involved.

Waste: something of no use, something that needs disposal. By defintiion its not. Its a petroleum product with many uses and a market value.

Its about 50p per 100ml round here, do you live on the Orkneys?

You could say the same of masses of products in shops.

makes great hair conditioner :) Other than being too toxic.

NT

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Onetap writes

Oh come on. You've never looked in your kitchen sink drain pipe or in a sewer. They're full of fat - body fat and the fats from soap - which, um, "sticks and can't easily be dissolved away".

The water companies send men with shovels into the sewers to spade out accumulated fat, so they're quite used to dealing with it.

[Rod]

Forgot to include this point:

Some people suggest that use of a non-mineral oil in baby skin care products, specifically peanut oil, might be behind the avalanche of peanut sensitivity. (I am not convinced either way.)

[geoff]

Well, not if its 4 stroke !

[Onetap]

Quite, which is why it is a really daft idea to put it through a heat exchanger. Grey water heat exchangers get hugely contaminated with soap scum, hair, etc., anyway and their efficiency falls off. The running costs in maintenance mean they often do not achieve the calculated pay-back.

They do. Most of the oils and fats originate from cooking, are animal or vegetable in origin and can be recycled, composted, burned or similarly disposed of. I believe that the sewage grease balls used to (and probably do still in most areas) go into animal feed.

As I understand it (I know bog-all about chemistry ) mineral-origin oils from car servicing or compressor drains (which is where I encountered this) present a different scale of problem due to their chemical composition. A small volume of oil can contaminate a huge volume of water. As mentioned above, discuss with Thames Water or some such if you have difficulty with this concept.

This is the second idiotic idea that NT has posted on UK-DIY recently. The other was restricting water flow to an outlet by crushing a 15mm copper pipe. NT is convinced he's an expert but has no practical experience and is worse than even Drivel.

I was recently involved in examining a failed LTHW system. The regulating valve (variable) orifices had become blocked. Fully open valves one-at-a-time, re-set, flow was restored. The accumulated debris had been shifted from the orifice to the strainers. The underlying cause was neglect of the chemical water treatment.

How far would you have to compress a copper pipe to take out, let=92s say, 2 bar of pressure from a 3 bar supply?

[Rod]

But wasn't the original point that this (use of oil) represented a possible [1] *alternative* to a heat exchanger?

And if they are so scummy and hairy already - a few extra drops of oil will likely make little difference.

[1] 'Possible' as in speculatively usable but of currently (i.e. when posted) undetermined merit.