Green U Turn on Nuclear.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/nuclear-power-yes-please-1629327.html
At last some sense.
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Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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The Medway Handyman wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/nuclear-power-yes-please-1629327.html
Yup. Its teh single thing the government could do to invest money for the future, create jobs and save the planet.
I hear BT has backed out of its windfarm project too. No longer profitable now the subsidies have changed..
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wrote:

But we sold off the bit that makes nuclear power plants...
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mogga wrote:

I know. And I made a nice little bit on that too..
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Perhaps that was connected to the fact that it didn't gain one single order anywhere in the world after Sizewell B.
No wonder Westinghouse sold it to us! They were well rid of it.
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"

Thank fuck for that. Maybe now we can get down to the real nitty gritty. Where do I hand my meter in to?
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The Medway Handyman wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/nuclear-power-yes-please-1629327.html
Shame we have lost 30 years of development while waiting...
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Cheers,

John.

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They will be telling us next that wind turbines on urban domestic houses don't work :)
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Alan
news2006 amac f2s com
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:58:39 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

But the French haven't...
No doubt we are heading for a load more wild cat strikes when specialist foreign workers are brought in.
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Dave.




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Yes now we will get some nasty PWR reactors that go to meltdown in about 500 milliseconds rather than the AGRs we were developing that take about three days to get to meltdown.
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Ah yes, the wonderful AGRs that are suffering more downtime than almost any other reactor design in the world due to multiple design and construction faults. A complete waste of time and money, hence the use of a PWR at Sizewell.
The best reactor design by a long way was the 100% British Magnox, which pre-dated the AGR. The Magnox stations have the highest load factors of any reactor design and have proved enduringly reliable by the standards of the nuclear industry.
Anyway, it isn't the PWR that melts down quickly, it is the latest French design of reactor.
Poor dennis, you just can't get anything right.
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And you don't think 30 years of development would have fixed that?

Its anything which has a compact core, including Sizewell.

Poor bruce showing how wrong he can be.

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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:58:39 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

There's the Candu reactor - best in the world 20+ years ago and has had some development (from Canada).
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Peter.
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PeterC wrote:

I think he meant 'we' as in the UK.
There's pebble bed development going on in S Africa, and the French made PWR reactors cheap and reliable.
Slapping in CANDUS and PWRS is a good base to start ..then pebble beds and thorium reactors..then fusion ultimately.
But the main stumbling block has been the extreme prejudice against what has actually been, even *with* Three mile Island, Windscale and Chernobyl, a very safe and pollution free industry *when compared with almost any other*. As opposed to the ridiculous standards the nuclear industry - unlike any other - has had to meet.
If we can get over that hurdle, we have the time, and enough oil and coal, to stumble along while we build the new generation.
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No, they made them cheap.
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:58:39 +0000, John Rumm

That's easily solved in the short term. Chuck another environmentalist on the fire and give it a good poke with a heavy metal object.
They are current carbon cycle and so effectively carbon neutral. High in energy content and burning them reduces overall noxious emissions plus it increases the speed of economic development by reducing public planning enquiries. Plus if you nobble a fat one and like pork scratchings......
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Mike wrote:

You might say that: I couldn't possibly comment.
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Actually you can place a lot of the blame on the Thatcher government. Back in the 70s after the oil crisis the labour governemnt set up a long term energy strategy based on coal, oil , nuclear and renewables. One of the few things they got very right IMO.
There were supposed to be 6 new nuclear power stations planned according to my sources at the time. The company I worked for at the time had tooled up to make the pressure vessels. Invested a lot of money in it. The tories got in and gave the go ahead for cheap gas powered generation. Scrapped the plans for nuclear. Saw loads of engineers and technical staff laid off and effectively buggered up the skills base in the UK for nuclear power for the next 30 years.
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Tidal lagoons are being looked into. If they come about then forget gas and oil and all will be, hopefully cheap electricity.
How Lagoons Work
There are a number of them at various states of water levels. There will always be power generated. Think of one large dam wall in a circle in a shallow sea, split it into three sections. The centre section could be 30 foot below the outer two and the high tide level, and fill up via the other two or the high tide.
It is a matter of having the lagoons filling and emptying at different times to ensure full power production 24/7. A test lagoon is being suggested at Swansea in South Wales.
This is different to tidal only at La Rance, France. La Rance is just one power station. It only generates when the tide is running one-way. It is quite old now - 1966. Pioneering it is.
Political Spite Makes Matters Worse
Hard nosed cost/benefit eliminated the British coal industry (or more political spite by Thatcher hating miners). Middle Eastern oil was buttons to buy and the North Sea was full of cheap gas. Mrs Thatcher was told to reserve the gas for primarily domestic use and not use it to generate electricity - use the masses of coal we have under the country to only generate electricity. She never. The coal industry disappeared with amazing stocks still under our feet. The North Sea is running out of oil and gas.
Fuel Poverty is a major Problem
Domestic gas prices went through the roof because of world market conditions - the Uks gas is mainly imported. Fuel poverty is now a major problem.
Long Term Political View is Important
We are now are semi-dependent on Russian gas as we used a lot of our own reserves needlessly. Russia refused to supply gas to the Ukraine a few years ago, so alarm bells rang. We need stable fuel supplies. We get oil and gas from the politically unstable Middle East and Russia - which is a political concern over cost/benefit. They have to look at the long term and stability, not short term gains of utility companies. Then there is the important eco angle too. Tidal lagoons are both the long-term practical answer and politically acceptable.
25 Year Project
It will take 25 years. However benefits will come quicker than expected.
* The electricity will be introduced in phases, * Knock-on effect fresh water reservoirs from rock excavations to combat water shortages, bridges, etc, by rock excavations. * Increased insulation levels in buildings at the same would reduce oil, coal and gas dependency rather quicker than expected. * Coal, gas and nuclear stations can be decommissioned and any planned costs in introducing nuclear stations will off-set the lagoons building costs. * Such a scheme would bring zero unemployment, saving on public social benefits over 25 years. * There is the comfort of not being under the reliance of foreign countries for energy, and being over-friendly with countries you would rather not be. * Savings on military as the world will be a more peaceful place - oil has created wars.
The UK over 25 years can easily construct and afford such a scheme. Advances in rock cutting & transporting machines and methods would ensue. The technology and design and build can be exported elsewhere for others too.
Unprecedented Project
To meet 100% of Britain and Ireland's need for energy, this is clearly possible and mostly involves hauling rock from mountains and valleys to the sea on an unprecedented scale.
* The British Isles geography is the best in the world for such an undertaking with its high tidal rises and falls. * It involves moving about 2,500 million tons of rock to the Irish Sea * Tidal lagoons created out of about 20% of the Irish Sea * 100% of Britain and Ireland's electricity needs met.
The numbers are staggering but possible:
* A heavy train can move perhaps 500 plus tons of rock * About 4 or 5 million train loads are needed * The UKs waste can be dumped into the lagoon walls while under construction, saving on landfill and re-cycling costs. * It would take maybe 30 railways to haul rock from say 30 large quarries over 25 years
There Are Many Knock-On Benefits
* The insides of hills and mountains can be cut out for the rock and lakes constructed top and bottom to make provision for instant use peak time hydro stations for half time energy peaks in major football games on TV. * New valleys can be created * New lakes * Fresh water reservoirs * Rail and road tunnels through mountains * Rail and road bridges across the Irish Sea * Deep water ship canals can be cut inland, reducing rail and road transport of goods - good result for quarried rock. * Some lagoons can be supertanker harbour/terminals, keeping these massive pollution risk vessels away from the shore. * The lagoon walls built can also be bridges * The lagoons can also be anti tidal surge barriers. Empty the lagoons at low tide when a surge is expected and allow the lagoons to fill taking excess water - London will go under if nothing is done. * Fish can be farmed inside the lagoons preventing foreign trawlers overfishing and all fish goes to the UK.
Fuel Poverty & Pollution Eliminated
Fuel poverty and pollution will be a thing of the past.
Cheap Fast Transport
The EU has a transport dept that looks at transport for the EU 20, 30, 40 years hence. The aim is super fast intercity trains between all major cities/centres. One idea is a tunnel between Liverpool and Dublin. As Holyhead is the halfway point between the two cities that appears a dumb suggestion and a loooooong expensive tunnel. But a tunnel from Ireland to North Wales at the shortest point and then a fast link to Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, London is feasible.
However, damming in the Irish Sea to make lagoons to produce all the power for the UK and Ireland would create maybe two land links anyhow and maybe one to the Isle of Man. This gives high speed transport bridges. Super fast Maglev trains between major centres and to Ireland become feasible as running cost are low.
All cars can be electric, and the auto industry is currently moving that way.
Overall the lagoon project is well worth looking much deeper into, and clearly looks highly feasible when all points are viewed.
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"Clearly" eh? You make me laugh! ;-)
It's about as clear as Severn Estuary mud, unless of course you are daft enough to swallow the PR material that gets churned out by protagonists for the various schemes, construction companies, turbine makers etc..
In your case, you seem to have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
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