Cost of renewables (slightly OT)

http://watt-logic.com/2018/08/22/myth-4/
Interesting critique of recent report commissioned by these people
https://www.nic.org.uk/
"The National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) provides the government with impartial, expert advice on major long-term infrastructure challenges" (taken from .gov.uk)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 21:47:04 +0100, newshound

Andrews' critique on the NIC report, on which the Watt-logic article is based, is here https://tinyurl.com/ydysuy2x
While on the subject of renewables, there's also this interesting MIT review on use of batteries:
"The $2.5 trillion reason we can’t rely on batteries to clean up the grid" https://tinyurl.com/y7c9vtrw
--

Chris

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 22/08/2018 22:01, Chris Hogg wrote:

Thanks, that is an even better link.
Depressing, isn't it.
Politicians, of course, will be delighted with the advice "Don't bother to build more nukes". Talk about chosing the consultants who will give you the results you want.
And JC is faffing on about taxing Facebook to subsidise the BBC.
I wonder if there is any possibility that GW models might start to show that decarbonisation is not quite so "essential". I suspect that the Juggernaut is unstoppable on the decadal timescale.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
newshound wrote:

'They' seem to have decided to emphasise the hothouse earth model recently, probably it sounds more urgent so something must be done?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Natural Philosopher used his keyboard to write :

+1 and another!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Since we have little in the way of natural resources left as in coal oil and gas - once the mainstream of electricity production, I'd not be too sure prices of those will stay low forever.
To me it is sensible to use a variety of ways to generate electricity.
The really sad thing is how the UK - once the workshop of the world - hasn't benefitted from designing building and selling such (renewables) technology to parts of the rest of the world where they are keen on them. And has to go abroad for a nuclear power station too.
--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 23/08/2018 18:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Not sure this is true. One of the reasons I went into nuclear power was that, in the 1960's, the "official" view was that oil would run out in the 1980's.
Being young and foolish, I believed this, but I reasoned that we were not going to want to give up cars, so would go electric even if we had to drop range and performance significantly. And electric cars need base load generation to charge overnight: big win for nuclear.
The official view at the same time was that UK coal reserves were ~ 300 years (this is at the 60's UK consumption of, IIRC, somewhere between 50 and 100 MTon/year).
I see no reason to suppose that the UK and many other countries don't have large gas reserves provided you frack. The US economy is doing relatively well on the back of fracking (perhaps the only thing that is keeping Trump from being booted out).
Oil is cheaper now than it was in the 1950's, in spite of the hike in the 70's following the Six Days war.
Obviously, resource prices *do* rise as they become scarce; but people also tend to find more reserves, and more efficient means of recovery.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Not convinced about that. In fact the reason Adolf got elected was because the shit was hitting the fan and enough decided that it was worth taking a chance with a loon like that.
Same with Mouseolini.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

it might not be imminent, but we are bound to run out of oil at some point
they aren't making any more of it
tim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well they are, but not in a timely fashion. There's still oil from shale, too, one of these days.
--
"What causes poverty?" Wrong question. Poverty is our primordial state. The
real question is, "What causes wealth?"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 24/08/2018 13:20, Tim Streater wrote:

TimS: agreed
Tim: disagree. In fact I can't think of any natural mineral resouce which has actually *run out*. As it becomes scarce, the price goes up, we find alternatives and the demand goes down. You might approach zero oil assymptotically at t=infinity. This was one of the glaring errors in the Club of Rome models in "Limits to growth". Plenty of graphs showing resources collapsing to zero because they left out the feedback factor.
Similarly all the panic about running out of lithium for batteries, and exotic metals for electronics. Once your mobile phone needs (say) £50 worth of tantalum there will be a healthy argument for recycling.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, 24 August 2018 14:37:24 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

e
too

n

0

They are starting landfill mining, then we'll go to asteroids.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

They are actually, just nothing like at the rate we consume it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 24/08/18 13:02, tim... wrote:

Not run out of oil , just run out of CHEAP oil.

Well they are. Just rather slowly.

--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Oil price is determined by the amount left, is it?
--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Plowman wrote:

Kind of the other way round, the amount of recoverable oil reserves increases as the price does ...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 26/08/18 16:18, Andy Burns wrote:

Yup. Oil cost price is detremined by how hard it is to extract. Oil sale price is determined by scarcity of supply or OPEC.

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 25/08/2018 11:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Of course it is.
Bill
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 30/08/18 21:12, Bill Wright wrote:

Of course it isn't

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, 30 August 2018 21:12:38 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:

The price of oil is controlled by oil companies controlling production/output.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.