Cables in new wall

[mihamix]

Hi,

I'm building a small double-skin wall outside in my garden to act as a fenc e. It is between the side-gate and the corner of my house, and approximatel y 1m long. I'm nowhere near from finishing the wall (it is like 3 feet tall atm), and I just realized it'd be nice to be able to provide some lights and possible an electric doorbell (gate bell in this case). For these, however, I need cables leading that way. What is the most recommended and accepted way of l eading the cables in the wall? Using a conduit? I'd like to make it nice an d clean, so cable ties are a no-no :-)

Every idea appreciated!

Kind regards, Attila.

[jgh]

If you are building the wall at the same time, I'd be tempted to embed conduit within the wall itself between the skins. May need the inner corners of some bricks to be nibbled away.

JGH

[Bill Wright]

It is between the side-gate and the corner of my house, and approximately 1m long.

realized it'd be nice to be able to provide some lights and possible an electric doorbell

(gate bell in this case). For these, however, I need cables leading that way. What is the

most recommended and accepted way of leading the cables in the wall? Using a conduit? I'd

like to make it nice and clean, so cable ties are a no-no :-)

Use black plastic flexi conduit in the masonry. CPC do some that's very cheap but there are no compatible fittings, but that might not matter.

Bill

[Attila Bán]

Thanks a lot for the advice, greatly appreciated!

Kind regards, Attila.

[Attila Bán]

Thanks for your response, it is greatly appreciated!

Kind regards, Attila.

[harryagain]

I'm building a small double-skin wall outside in my garden to act as a fence. It is between the side-gate and the corner of my house, and approximately 1m long. I'm nowhere near from finishing the wall (it is like 3 feet tall atm), and I just realized it'd be nice to be able to provide some lights and possible an electric doorbell (gate bell in this case). For these, however, I need cables leading that way. What is the most recommended and accepted way of leading the cables in the wall? Using a conduit? I'd like to make it nice and clean, so cable ties are a no-no :-)

Every idea appreciated!

Kind regards, Attila.

A key factor will be how long the circuit is and the voltage. If it'slow voltage and more than a two or three metres you will need much thicker wiring than you might think.

You can buy wireless doorbell systems which would be much easier. Some go up tpo 100m range.

[meow2222]

You can embed the wire any way you like. Conduit makes it easier to thread more cables through in 30 years. If you use conduit, I'd put the cables _outside_ the conduit. That way for the same materials you've got more space for new cables.

much thicker wiring for 3m? What have you been smoking.

NT

[Martin Bonner]

That sounds like it is going to end up about 1m long by 6' high.

I think standard 9" brickwork of those dimensions could easily get knocked over. Is it tied into the house wall in any way? (Or even the gate post).

[Attila Bán]

Hi,

The wall is tied to the house wall using SabreFix wall starter kit

You now made me nervous, is this enough to prevent the wall from having knocked over?

Regards, Attila.

[Tim Watts]

On Wednesday 02 October 2013 08:52 Attila Bán wrote in uk.d-i-y:

x-1200mm/56037#).

So juts to be sure:

It is 1m end to end, and 1.8m high.

It is tied to the house at one end.

It is not tied to anything the eother end, 1m away?

Is the wall on good foundations?

Asumming yes to the above:

The weak point is the top right end away from the house. You would do well to make a double brick column at the end and make sure the foundations to the column are good.

It may be vulnerable to being hit or high winds if the mortar did not bond as well as it might.

[Onetap]

That seems to me to be, ahem, unorthodox advice but since I am not an electrician I couldn't possibly comment.

I am, as ever, filled with admiration for NT's infinite assortment of skills and knowledge.

Would any of the proper Electricians like to give an opinion?

Isn't the point of the conduit to allow the cables to be withdrawn and to provide some protection?

If you've gone to the effort of cutting a chase, is it worth saving the cost of a bit of conduit and plastering uncovered cables into a wall.

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 03 October 2013 11:14 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

His idea is sound in general.

If the cable gets broken you run a new one through the conduit.

However, it's probably more applicable to signal cables - as you may want to pull more, possibly better/faster (eg network) cables through - but you might still have a use for the older cables.

Yes, you can bury cables under plaster, unprotected. I would not, however, bury them in a mortar joint - too much likelihood of damage during laying the bricks.

[Onetap]

In general. Historically lots of cables have been embedded in plaster or screed, mainly before cheap plastic conduit was available.

But would a real electrician do such a thing?

The OP was asking about power cables for lights. Would it contravene the 17th edition (or whatever they're up to) IEE regs to embed cables directly in plaster?

Is there any logic in cutting a chase and NOT using a conduit for new cables? If you want an empty conduit for future expansion, surely you'd just use two bits of conduit?

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 03 October 2013 15:06 Onetap wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Yes - very much so - or at least they put capping over the cable to stop the plasterer slicing them.

I do not believe you get conduit in a residential job unless you ask for it.

Absolutely fine.

One oval conduit around a cable makes no real difference to the chase and costs little (which is why I wonder why it's not done more by default). Of course, extra (ie spare) conduit means extra width on the chase. If the room is empty then it's another pull down on the wall chaser or angle grinder and a little more knocking out - but it's not hugely tedious if the plaster is thick enough to take the conduit.

[charles]

my parents' house (1939 build) was entirely conduited. When my father had an electric fit a 2 way light switch the work done in PVC and then promptly cut when a GPO engineer fitted an extension phone point. His auger neatly went through the centre conductor hidden in the door frame!

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 03 October 2013 18:35 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Yes - they used to do that. Thin wall steel conduit by any chance?

[charles]

no conduit at all ;-(

[meow2222]

yes, to replace with new. With cable outside the conduit you can fit new, and more new, without removing the old

not normally in domestic situations

standard practice

its not historic, its standard practice

sheesh

quicker, easier, cheaper on labour & materials, its why almost all domestic wiring is done this way

why?

Is this going to be another idiot thread?

NT

[Attila Bán]

Hi All,

Thanks for everyone who replied or read it. This is just a quick update to say that given your feedback I slightly amen ded the plan and (according to the plan) the wall is going to be roughly 9' tall, and the width is as follows: the first 7' from ground: 3.4' wide; thereafter 7' wide and the the top 2' are tied in on both ends (house + shed), whereas the first 7' is only tied in on one side (house). There will be two concrete lintels to bridge the ga p above the gate. Partially the reasons behind planning to make the wall taller is that the s hed wall is a 60-year-old single skin wall and the top part of it (the bits which are above the roof level) is already a bit splay, hence the 9' doubl e skin wall will provide support against further splaying (the shed wall is at right angle to the new wall).

With regards to cables, I decided to be future proof, so I will put two con duits inside the wall, one is a 25mm (for the 10mm T&E which takes the elec tricity out to the shed - existing feature just modifying cable run (it goe s without saying that a part P registered electrician will come to re-certi fy it)) plastic conduit whereas the other one is only 20mm (or rather 25mm, as I have accessories for that) plastic conduit, for miscellaneous lightin g cables - currently no plan to use it - maybe for the lights. With regards to doorbell, my other half said she doesn't want a doorbell on the side gate, so that is off the agenda.

Thanks for your help and comments,

Feel free to apply positive criticism against the above,

Kind regards, Attila.

[Onetap]

o re-certify it))

I would suggest that you discuss your proposals with your Part P electrici an before embedding the conduit in the walls, in order to ensure that he wi ll be happy to install and/or certify the wiring installation.

If he is of the opinion that the conduits provided do not comply with the I EE Wiring Regulations, then he may refuse to work on it.

I think you may have been misinformed by this group.

See this;