best solution for electric water heating?

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:42:57 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

That may be why one was recommended. However, there are other possible reasons for the recommendation.

[Lobster]

As of 1 October you have to provide any incoming tenants with an Energy Performance Certifcate for the property. Eg:

Doesn't contain heating costs per se, but it does flag up if you have poor insulation or an inefficient method of providing heating though.

Remains to be seen whether this will have any effect whatsoever on the 'buying' decisions of prospective tenants, as with HIPs for home purchases.

David

[terry]

eating are fed from the

f-contained hot water and

ers - it is the hot water

ut then he told me the

Here we would go for an electric hot water tank. A so called 40 US gallon tank (About 33 Imperial) costs less than $250 (Canadian dollars), bring it home yourself in a pickup, small station wagon or trunk of a car, or utility trailer behind car. Normally lasts 10 years or more with zero maintenance, although daughter's 60 gallon only two years old 'blew' its lower heating element recently (Replacement element cost about $28 Can. including sales tax). Total effort on our part two hours including going to the big box store about six kilometres away to get replacement. Electricity here, 99% hydro generated, costs about 10 cents Can. per k.watt/hr or unit. Typical tank has two 3500 watt heaters with flip-flop thermostats. (It heats the top and then flips over and heats the bottom of the tank). The common practice here is that tenants "POU" (Pay own utilities). Most units have a separate electricity meter.

[terry]

l heating are fed from the

self-contained hot water and

eaters - it is the hot water

in the kitchen.

. But then he told me the

Why. We have used hot water tank systems since 1958, on both well water pump/pressure and now mains water systems. Or is that a comment that mains pressures are very low? Our mains and water pump systems run anywhere from 20lbs to 60 lbs per sq. inch. Well water pumps usually cut in at 20 run to 40 and shut off. Mains systems occasionally get up to 80 lbs but are pressure controlled to protect tap seals etc.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Unless you ave at least 20 foot head or a pump, you wont be able to use a decent shower.

20 foot is doable on a loft tank with a ground floor shower, but not a loft mounted header and a first floor bathroom, and is absolutely not possible with a tank and cylinder combo sited on the first floor, (even with a pump)which is the cheapest way to get hot water.

And the cost of all the header, normal tank, and pump and plumbing is pretty much the same as a megaflo type cylinder anyway.

I went through this loop with a neighbor, who didn't have a loft. In the end the only solution was a megaflo type one.

Or use a 'power shower' and a hot water geyser. And no tank at all.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well if you look at the 'green field' costs and a decent shower beyond a

10KW power shower is desired, then it turns out that a megaflo is far and away the best solution, and is not significantly more expensive than a stored header water/pumped system.

[The Natural Philosopher]

heating are fed from the

self-contained hot water and

heaters - it is the hot water

then he told me the

I took ;conventional' to mean without mais pressure.

Unless you have the height, a header tank system is inadequate for a first floor shower, and is pretty pathetic on a ground floor one s well.

Pumps can be used, but cost money. And are not what I would infer from 'conventional;' since the OP did not say 'conventional with a pump'

I.e I took him to mean a sytem of loft header tank, and simple umnpressursied hot water tank,. for which my comments stand.

Thats a pump tho.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Rubbish. You simply need to get a shower designed for low pressure. Which means one fed with 22mm.

Err, you'll get very wet if someone tips a bucket of water over you - and the 'head' on that is only a few inches. With careful pipe runs and suitable sized pipes you'll get a very acceptable shower from much less than 20 ft. I'd agree it's not as easy as with higher pressure but can be done. The tank here is only about 10 ft above the shower head and it works just fine.

[The Natural Philosopher]

If I want a shower that feels like someone tipped a bucket of water over me I'd use a bucket of water.

Most header tanks-in-the-loft are only a couple of feet head above the actual shower head.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So you prefer low flow at high pressure? May be a pleasant feeling but useless for getting you clean.

And often part of the bath plumbing so not ideal with too much in the way of 'friction'. As I said if you have low pressure you need to use the correct method.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Nah, I like high flow at high pressure. Judging by what happens if My wife takes a shower, its abut 300 liters of hot water down the drain in

15 minutes. ;-)

If I have a bath...

Its doubtful if most tanks can deal with 300 liters in 15 minutes anyway.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You're not going to get both from the *average* mains water supply. In exactly the same way as mains pressure water is slow to fill a bath.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well I have no problem at all. Lot of pressure and flow, and that goes for every installation I know.

22mm all the way to the tank, and even though its mainly 15mm to the smaller showers (direct 22mm to the biggest) everyone says its the best shower they have ever taken.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Thought you were talking about mains fed stuff - not from a tank. The flow from a tank can be pretty much what you decide via the choice of pipe size.;