Best roof box pulley system design....

[Lee Nowell]

Hi All,

I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear rea dy for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse the car into the gara ge, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we go....

I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less straig ht forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it overly complex :) ) Thought process so far....

1. Ideally I would want 1 rope to pull it up so.... create a 4 way harness to slip over each end of the roof rails, put one pulley on the ceiling and hoist it up. Seemed ideal until I thought about it having no stability and would wave around the ceiling.
2. Enhance the above by having 2 pulleys and a 2 point harness (one each si de). This should stop the swaying about. I then thought.... unless the bo x is evenly weighted, it would be difficult to control - also it would have 2 ropes (not the end of the world)
3. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling with 4 ropes (one for each "corner")... S hould solve the stability problem but then will have 4 ropes and therefore harder to control......
4. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling and 4 on each corner of the box. This way I can run a single rope around these pulleys (running ceiling to platform a nd back at each corner). This way I get 1 rope but should have the stabili ty :) However, this seems a bit overkill.... also, I *think* I would get a n 8:1 ratio on pull length v's height lift so..... a 2m lift would require

16m of pull length!

So... this is as far as I could get....

Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?

Thanks

Lee.

[newshound]

I would go for four separate ropes, one at each corner, with four separate pulleys. You should be able to manage that with a second person. You need a conveniently located cleat for each rope. And make the ropes long enough to be able to lower the whole thing to the floor. That way you can load the box conveniently, also add or remove stuff selectively, clean it out, etc. If cash is no object, have four small electric hoists (not particularly expensive).

[Andrew Gabriel]

You can buy bicycle hoists for storing bikes up at ceiling height. Maybe a couple of those could be used? I sometimes see them cheap or on special offer.

[michael adams]

I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we go....

I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it overly complex :) ) Thought process so far....

1. Ideally I would want 1 rope to pull it up so.... create a 4 way harness to slip over each end of the roof rails, put one pulley on the ceiling and hoist it up. Seemed ideal until I thought about it having no stability and would wave around the ceiling.
2. Enhance the above by having 2 pulleys and a 2 point harness (one each side). This should stop the swaying about. I then thought.... unless the box is evenly weighted, it would be difficult to control - also it would have 2 ropes (not the end of the world)
3. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling with 4 ropes (one for each "corner")... Should solve the stability problem but then will have 4 ropes and therefore harder to control......
4. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling and 4 on each corner of the box. This way I can run a single rope around these pulleys (running ceiling to platform and back at each corner). This way I get 1 rope but should have the stability :) However, this seems a bit overkill.... also, I *think* I would get an 8:1 ratio on pull length v's height lift so..... a 2m lift would require 16m of pull length!

So... this is as far as I could get....

Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?

....

4 ropes, 4 swivel pulleys 1 above each corner. 4 swivel pulleys at the same height grouped together above a point in the middle of a long wall most convenient to you. Set a cleat hook close to the floor on the wall underneath the four grouped pulleys, (so as to allow you to lower the thing to the floor) and feed all four ropes through each of its own two pulleys, binding all four ropes together at some point past the cleat hook. (Binding them together higher up would prevent them going through the four pulleys above)

There's probably something seriously wrong with such a set-up, but my brain has started to hurt, trying to visualise what it is.

michael adams

...

.

[Robin]

I can only think of rodents licking their lips at their ideas for those ropes :)

[Mike Barnes]

That gets my vote except that I'd bind all four ropes individually to a metal ring (easier adjustment to correct stretching etc) and run a fifth rope downwards to pull on. The fifth rope could go round a block and tackle arrangement to reduce the force required.

[jfflkjflkjflkdfj]

I tried that...

First of all the cord would derail into the gap between pulley and bracket if it wasn't perfectly aligned, and jam.

So I replaced the cord with 6mm polyproylene rope, but that showed that the re was so much friction in the pulleys (plain bearings) that one end would go up before the other. If you had the box hooked by the rim it then slid u ntil the hooks reached one end and it fell off with a crash. I tried hookin g onto the roog bars, but inevitably I would need the roof bars alone at so me point.

Plus there was always the problem of clearing a big enough space on the gar age floor to get it down without squashing something.

So I gave up and put a couple of big hook onto the outside wall and use a c ouple of bits of rope to hoik it up, storing it on edge. Probably not too g ood for the metal parts to get it rained on all the time but I keep them sp ry lubed up each time I use it.

This was all for the biggest box you can get - Mont Blanc Vista 540 - it mi ght work for a smaller, lighter box.

[Lee Nowell]

Yeah I think the 4 pulley with individual ropes may be the only option.

I guess once you end up with the situation where the 4 ropes can only reall y be brought together at more or less floor level (due to the issue of bein g able to lower it to the floor) I guess I might as well stick to pulling t he 4 ropes but as Michael suggests via a second set of pulleys directly ove r the cleat.

I have a half baked thought which I am not sure it will work or is a good/ better idea.....

How about taking the 4 ropes to a central point (say at the top of the wall with the cleat) and securing the ends there such that they are slightly sl ack when the roof box in on the floor. Now put a 4 way pulley on the ceili ng between the point where they are secured and the corner pulleys [not 100 % sure this one is actually needed!]. Then put a second 4 way pulley on th e ropes between this pulley and where the ropes are finally secured. Tying a rope to this pulley and pulling down, show lift the box? I *think* this w ould also mean that the 4 ropes would only go half way down the wall?

What do you think?

[Mike Barnes]

I don't quite follow that but there's no point in running four ropes where one will do. At the earliest opportunity, make a five-way junction between ropes to the four corners and the rope that you pull on.

I'd go for: ropes from each of the corners vertically to ceiling pulleys then horizontally to a pulley at the top of the wall (all four of those close together). With the box on the floor join those four ropes just below the top-of-wall pulleys to a fifth rope. Take that fifth rope round a pulley at the bottom of the wall and then to another at the top. That will give you the full range of movement at a convenient height for pulling on.

[michael adams]

Indeed. You lay the box on the ground, attach each of the four ropes and run each rope through each of their two pulleys and then as soon as they're clear of the second grouped pulley, it's at that point they can all be joined together giving a single rope to pull.

A block and tackle arrangement underneath would also be preferable to a cleat hook as the latter would presumably need to be uncomfortably close to the floor to allow enough length of rope to get the box close to the ceiling, in any case.

michael adams

...

[Fredxxx]

How about something along these lines:

Some come with all the pulleys you need and all you need is a strap between the hanger and around the roof box.

I feel this one is a bit pricey but there might be others. In their day they were called "Spacesaver"s.

[spuorgelgoog]

This is all too much work ...

Raise the car on a hydraulic lift until the roof box engages with ceiling-m ounted latches.

Perhaps more practically, instead of using pulleys, have each corner rope w ind up on its own reel, 2 reels are on the same axle (front and rear axles) , then you just have to link the 2 axles by a chain. One of the axles exte nds to the side wall of the garage, and you then take power down by a bevel gear shaft to an operating handle at convenient height - or even use a mot or. You would need to do a lot of winding with a small reel but at very low power.

Think of the rope and shaft gear used for opening large high windows.

Owain

[The Medway Handyman]

What a stupid idea.

Easier to raise the garage, drive the car under, then lower it. Hydraulic jack on each corner would do the job.

[chris French]

In message , Lee Nowell writes

Maybe not in the spirit of uk.d-i-y, you could always just by a ready made solution (Thule Roofbox Lift):

I did have such ideas for my roofbox, but the entrance to the garage is too low. Anyway I then got a trailer which we use for camping much of the time, suits us much better. All the camping gear can live in there and much easier/quicker to load the trailer when striking camp.

[no_spam]

KISS! I just use 2 luggage straps (one at each end) around the joists - it works!

[Alan Braggins]

How about you just don't hoist them up out of the way? Have a ceiling mounted pulley close to the wall, rope hangs down next to the wall, coil it and hang it on the cleat you'll want anyway. That way when you use it you'll still have the whole space clear with no ropes diagonally across it. In other words, if you do something like this:

add an extra pulley on the roof ahead of the nose of the box, above the cleat. Not that just leaving it like that would be too bad.

[michael adams]

Essentially, you would run the ropes from the 4 pulleys to the wall and secure it there (rather than on a pulley). You would then have 1 rope which would concurrently pull all

4 ropes as shown in the dodgy side on ascii diagram below (P = pulley; C = Corner)...

P------P------------ 4 ropes fixed to wall | | ^ | | pull here with 1 rope | | C C

The reason that won't work is because the ropes from the pulleys to the wall will be of all different lengths.

When you pull the single rope the length of the shortest two ropes, those corners of the box will be touching the ceiling, but there will still be slack in the other two ropes.

In order for your system to work you would need the four ropes to be joined in the middle of the ceiling.

For this to be possible you will need to drill a hole at the appropriate point through the box and through the car, feed the rope through this hole, and dig a pit underneath where you can stand to pull on the rope. You can fix a cleat hook to the wall of the pit.

If its a tight fit you may also need access stairs of some kind to the pit.

HTH

michael adams

...

[Lee Nowell]

This is starting to hurt my head :)

I can't visualise the issue unfortunately (maybe I should do a prototype). In my head (maybe mixed up!) I have a picture where at steady state with t he box on the floor and all 4 ropes just taut. When I pull the single rope , it will deflect the "taut" ropes the same amount down and therefore they will all raise the same amount up. Maybe it is to do with the distance/ an gle of the pull point to each of the pulleys?