ALLERGIC REACTION TO LOFT INSULATION

[johunt]

Millfold Group came today and laid Fibreglass insulation in my loft = they said it was Rockwool but later retracted haveing said this. Anyway the guys came and unrolled the stuff. I went up the ladder to have a look and touched the insulation and not too long after I felt wheezy and itching all over my body. My arms and hands were actually read and feeling very itchy. It made me think that I am allergic to the material they used. I told them to remove it and put something else. Is there something else ? and how many people have this type of loft insulation = is it safe in the long run ? They originally said it is Rockwool - whatever that is - but then said no, it is fibreglass. Does this material in time become "friendly", ie not causing itchiness and wheezing to the chest. Why do they put this kind of material in the lost - is it really that effective for heat preservation in the winter ? Had I known it would cause this reaction I would not have had the loft insulated. Has anyone a similar experience - different loft insulation installed ?

j Hunt

[malcolm gray]

I am fairly sure all the fibreglass I have bought recently has warned that a dust mask should be warn when handling.

My experience is that I get some reaction if I have been throwing lots of fibres into the air (e.g. installing it) but no problem once it has settled down and I am not distirbing it. But your reaction sounds more extream than mine.

[Ian Stirling]

Touched it? Fiberlass will make your body itch. The fibers are fairly irritant. It is an effective insulation, but will be utterly harmless if you don't go into the attic.

[Chris Bacon]

Beats tea leaves, I guess....

Yes, if you don't make a habit of breathing the fibres.

Most people installing this stuff get itchy skin. You're supposed to wear a mask when you're installing it. Perhaps you went up there when there was a lot of dust about.

Once the dust settles....

Becaus it's good long-lasting effective inert stuff.

Rockwool is slightly less irritating. Just don't go up in the loft, or if you do, and you're going to stir things up, wear a mask. You can get rockwool/fibreglass in rolls in a continuous plastic bag, which is nicer, but you need standard joist separation to fit it.

[Weatherlawyer]

It is also a little duller and softer. Fiberglass is usually quite a bright yellow. Both are irritants though. Fiber glass is awful. Throw your clothes away when using that. And wash you hand before you go we wees, not just after.

Make sure you have no draughts through from the loft. A cold bath will wash the glass away. But you will have to wash your clothes three or four times.

It depends on who told you it was rockwool/fibreglass whether the people who laid it are at fault. For the general everyday use the terms rockwool and fibreglass are interchangeable.

If someone not directly involved in the contract has used the term loosely, all they have to do is deny they said it.

It should make a tremendous difference whichever they put down, come next winter.

[Chris Bacon]

Hm, I've seen that ages ago - have only seen pink, recently.

Not nice, I'll grant. Are you a Yank?

[Peter Parry]

I'd apply for a Nobel prize then, you have just discovered proteins in fibreglass.

Can guess what they thought of that idea.

Several substances, most can cause slight irritation (but none can cause allergy).

Well over half the countries houses at a guess.

It is perfectly safe in both the long and short run.

It can cause skin irritation when disturbed or handled, the other symptoms are mostly psychosomatic.

Yes, that's why it is used.

[Pete C]

In the past it's been mentioned that spraying with a dilute PVA solution will bind loose fibres on the surface.

cheers, Pete.

[johunt]

THANKS EVERYONE. SO..... IS FIBREGLASS TOXIC ????? If it has affected me so badly how can I argue it is good to have in the house ? Also will I never be able to use the loft for storage so that the fibreglass remains undisturbed. ??? I must ask them to remove the insulation material but what is the alternative ??? the company said the only other alternative they have is "Whitewool" - what is this - does anyone know ???

PS this article is quite worrying:

[Owain]

And spraying with a dilute H2O solution will help the dust settle anyway.

Owain

[Fred]

Fred

[jim_in_sussex]

interesting....

This subject has somewhat concerned me for years, but only around the times I've been installing it or working in an attic. (IMHE it never properly settles - even a minor disturbance stirs it up again). Then I forget about it... until you see the subject on uk.d-i-y....

My concern is the comparison with asbestos - I've known 2 people who died of asbestosis. My (limited) understanding is that asbestosis (& isn't there a similar lung-choking complaint that coal miners get?) is that its primary cause is breathing asbestos dust into the lungs. Presumably the dust (a) congests the airways but also lingers and interacts over a long timespan with the cells lining the lungs to cause mutation into cancerous cells. No allergic reaction there SFAIUI, but horrible consequences.

Why doesn't this happen with fibreglass/rockwool? The first stage of breathing in the dust & feeling choked off is the same. Why is it certain that the next stage(s) don't follow, as in asbestosis? Asbestosis may take decades to show up - why won't possible ill-effects of fibreglass be the same?

Is the skin itchiness dues to fibre size or shape or both?

BTW what is the difference between fibreglass and rockwool? Aren't these essentially the same thing -just different tradce names - made by melting sand and spinning it, like sugar in a candyfloss machine?

[<me9]

The party line (I'm *not* convinced by it)

The problem with asbestos is that the fibres will break up into finer particles, eventually being small enough to peirce the mitochondria of cells, and even the DNA molecules.

Mineral/glass fibres are a larger diameter, and don't fragment into smaller fibres ad-infinitum. Therefore they won't cause tha same damage.

I'mn not convinced by this, I regard fibreglass/mineral wool as a hazardous substance

[snip]

Isn't rockwool a natural product, and fibreglass manufactured? I may (nay probably am) be wrong.

[Will]

Whilst I generally have regard to your latterly infrequent posts, this particular point I disagree with, on a personal front.

Unfortunately, my lungs have suffered over the years from copious amounts of farm dust inhalation, followed by a reasonable amount of industrial fume inhalation, all of which was preceded by bronchitis at age 18. I have to say though that I have not yet reached age 50.

For the last twelve years or so my job has necessitated the occasional couple of hours in various glassfibre insulated loft spaces. If I don't have a mask handy, then usually within a few minutes I am reduced to a helpless coughing wreck. the coughing often lasts to some degree for an hour or two after the exposure. I have also noticed that the earlier green, more abrasive glassfibre is much more dusty, and causes more or stronger symptoms.

Rockwool seems not to be a problem...

[T i m]

I think some people are more contact sensitive to it than others. I can be up to my elbows in it all day with no issues (wearing a mask etc).

I insulated my loft with the stuff years ago and you can see all the fibres floating in the air as you move it (so handle it gently / slowly).

Maybe my immunity may come from spending much of my yoof fiberglassing (not the *same* stuff I know but also effects some people) real and model boats.

Nowdays I try to wear gloves etc ..

All the best ..

T i m

[dave]

Dilute H2O?

[johunt]

TO GET OVER MY PROBLEM - SHOULD I HAVE THE FIBRE GLASS INSULATION REMOVED FROM MY LOFT - this I suppose is not an easy task and is itself hazardous. the insulation people just covered the whole of the attice and all the joist. I thought they would have tucked the insulation material in between the joists. the loft is unusable and nothing can be stored. - Probably the dust also got into the water tank. HELP PLEASE

[Peter Parry]

Any particulate matter can cause irritation and coughing, fibreglass in particular can also irritate the skin. What fibreglass cannot do is cause an allergic reaction.

[Rob Morley]

That would be less effective from an insulation point of view - covering the joists (and eliminating the possibility of gaps between joist and wadding) will keep the heat in better.

Sit down and have a nice cup of tea. The dust from fibreglass is not hazardous, just irritating to some people. Consider some of the suggestions that have been made - I liked the one about spraying with dilute PVA.

[madmax]

Knauf do an "itch free" fibrer glass. You can get it from B&Q as well as insulation vendors (Encon etc). Its usefull because as well as itch free it is also contained within its own sleeve.