Air source heat pump - permitted development and planning

A build near us has the plans passed. It looks as though the external wall of the building is 1 metre from the property boundary, and the cooling units protrude from that wall, placing them closer to the boundary.

This would not be allowed under "permitted development" but can this be allowed under a planning application?

Slightly confused, as usual.

Also, the first reference I found said permitted development only applied if the heat pump was used for heating only.

I assume most domestic installations of a split unit would be for both heating and cooling.

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David
Loading thread data ...

Yes, under a metre from the Boundary needs planning permission. (possible noise pollution)

I dont think that is true, many HPs can be used for cooling. Note, that doesnt mean like air con, it can only get down to around 16/17 degrees on a wet system, as condensation occurs below that, so the floors, if UFH, will get wet, as well as the rads.

No, many reasons for a split unit. As above, cooling isnt great from a HP, you want air con for that. Also length of run for the outdoor unit has an influence,a split unit can be sited a long way between indoor/outdoor.There are a few other reasons to fit a split unit, a smaller outdoor unit cab be used, downsides are you need an FGAS qualification to fit split units.

Reply to
Alan Lee

A planning application can allow pretty much anything (within the law/building regs). Permitted development just means you don't need to apply for planning permission - which is what you do when something isn't covered by PD.

It's quite likely the planning application has some kind of noise model, to show noise limits aren't exceeded at the boundary (which would potentially be valid grounds for objection). PD just skips that bit by applying rules of thumb that say you have to be a certain distance away.

Correct

It may be possible to software disable cooling to make heat-only units. For others it's a jumper on the PCB or similar.

Theo

Reply to
Theo

If it's used for cooling you can't install it under permitted development, but if you're going for full planning anyway it's not a big deal to say you'll use it for cooling too.

You can't really tell from the outside whether a HP is an air2air or air2water type unless you look closely at the pipework; both can do cooling, but the air2water needs fan coils because UFH or rads aren't very good at cooling. In other words you need to design the emitters for cooling, you can't really retrofit cooling into an existing wet heating system without fitting extra fan coils.

Air con *is* a heat pump, just domestic systems are typically an air2air unit with refrigerant pipework rather than water pipework. Both use fan coils if you want both heating and cooling - one takes refrigerant, the other takes water.

Refrigerant has better latent heat transfer, but most large commercial air con systems are chilled water, because distributing chilled water around a large building is easier than distributing refrigerant.

Theo

Reply to
Theo
<snip>

Thanks for the responses so far.

So any home that wants a split unit air to air system for both heating and cooling will need planning permission?

I wonder how hard that it to obtain?

Oh, and I found a government consultation about lifting a lot of the restrictions under permitted development to encourage adoption of heat pumps.

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David

Um, no. You can have one heat pump installation without PP, whether it’s A2A or A2water. A system that heats and cools won’t be eligible for any of the generous grants though.

If you subsequently want a second unit (an ASHP to heat your house using water) you need to get planning permission.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

Tim+ snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

Um, no. If it's to be under permitted development:

Limits to be met:

Development is permitted only if the air source heat pump installation complies with the Microgeneration Certification Scheme Planning Standards (MCS 020) or equivalent standards. Read more about the scheme. The volume of the air source heat pump’s outdoor compressor unit (including housing) must not exceed 0.6 cubic metres Only the first installation of an air source heat pump would be permitted development, and only if there is no existing wind turbine on a building or within the curtilage of that property. Additional wind turbines or air source heat pumps at the same property requires an application for planning permission All parts of the air source heat pump must be at least one metre from the property boundary Installations on pitched roofs are not permitted development. If installed on a flat roof all parts of the air source heat pump must be at least one metre from the external edge of that roof Permitted development rights do not apply for installations within the curtilage of a Listed Building or within a site designated as a Scheduled Monument On land within a Conservation Area or World Heritage Site the air source heat pump must not be installed on a wall or roof which fronts a highway or be nearer to any highway which bounds the property than any part of the building On land that is not within a Conservation Area or World Heritage Site, the air source heat pump must not be installed on any part of a wall above the level of the ground floor storey if that wall fronts a highway.

Please note: ‘permitted development’ rights may be removed through a planning condition, Article 4 Direction or other restriction.

In addition, the following conditions must also be met. The air source heat pump must be:

Used solely for heating purposes Removed as soon as reasonably practicable when it is no longer needed for microgeneration Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.

formatting link

So one ASHP for heating only is permitted, cooling or any more need permission.

I don't think PP would be too hard to get though: as long as you can show it's within noise limits and not an eyesore. Your local planning office can advise what conditions they would expect.

Theo

Reply to
Theo

In message <8vD* snipped-for-privacy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 22:57:32 on Sat,

4 May 2024, Theo <theom+ snipped-for-privacy@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

Presumably that also includes heating bath-water?

And isn't cooling just negative heating?

Reply to
Roland Perry

I am afraid that ordinary planning law is ignored when it comes to 'green crap' .

As indeed is civil and criminal law when it comes to 'climate protesters'. Or pro Hamas protesters.

Your best bet is to tell your bearded chums your neighbour is Jewish :-(

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I know that used to be the case, but does it still apply to the "Boiler Upgrade Scheme", can't see any reference to it, and a few installers I've spoken to in recent months were certainly "relaxed" about adding fan-coil cooling ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

I don’t understand the logic of the planning departments of insisting the an ASHP must only be used for heating.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

Heat-only used to be a condition of the RHI but it was removed ~2018. I assume that removal also applies to the BUS. However, if you're installing for cooling you need PP; that may complicate a BUS install.

IMO the thing to do is install with heat only - you can install fan coils and use them as fan heaters. Then, once installed and commissioned, apply for PP to flip the switch to enable cooling mode. You can then supply measured noise numbers for cooling mode in your application to show that it's not going to be a noise nuisance (and demonstrate that on any site visit) - and they can hardly refuse it on aesthetic grounds since it's already legally installed under PD.

Theo

Reply to
Theo

I'm still wondering what else you'd use it for, once cooling has been accepted as simply "negative heating".

Reply to
Roland Perry

I assume politicoreligious.

Good to replace hydrocarbons as a heating source. Very green Bad to use electricity to cool your home. So un-green.

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David

"It's not cooling m'lud, it's merely transferring thermal energy from the inside to the outside. Energy is conserved, so with the input of electrical energy it's in actual fact heating."

Theo

Reply to
Theo

You'll be banged up for persistent sophistry.

Reply to
Tim Streater

If you've already installed it under permitted development, how are they even going to know that you've later enabled cooling mode? Indeed if it is already legally installed, how can you require planning permission for simply switching on an existing function and not installing anything new?

Reply to
SteveW

If the intention of ASHP is to reduce your carbon footprint, then cranking the aircon up all summer is probably not seen as "on message".

Reply to
Andy Burns

Why? Why is it acceptable to use energy to go from a cold 10°C to a comfortable 20°C, but not to use it to go from a hot 30°C to the same comfortable 20°C?

Reply to
Jeff Layman

Well yes, but I don’t see that as a planning issue, more a government policy one.

Tim

Reply to
Tim+

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.