40+ year-old cars no longer need a MOT

[tabbypurr]

thankfully the law disagrees with you.

PS try finding a 1930s car that would pass a modern MOT brake test.

NT

[tabbypurr]

probably lol. Have you ever driven one?

all old cars have manual ABS. But not all drivers are fitted with it appare ntly.

you can do that in any 1930s car, though go easy on the steering

When I replaced my 1960s one with something much more primitive, it wasn't difficult at all. The only thing that came as a surprise was that a gentle lane change pushed the handling close to its limits. And the noise, jeeze w as it noisy. Conversation required shouting & repeating. Oh, and the brake fade.

they seldom are. Except that oldie I mentioned, that panicked a lot of driv ers of modern vehicles.

NT

[bert]

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

In Scouseland a 40 year old car would be called Nearly New.

[bert]

You bought a Series Land Rover?;-)

>

[NY]

I wasn't sure whether it was "some", "many" or "most". Most times, you would only go from first to second, and not from a higher gear to first. (*) But the problem comes when you need to climb a very steep hill for which second will not suffice. You may only discover that half way up the hill when, with very little warning, you need to engage first. I suppose in the extreme case, you come to a dead halt, engage first with the car stationary and then set off again - rather less elegant than being able to change from any gear to any gear at the drop of a hat, as you can with a modern car, but not a total show-stopper.

Although I can do clutchless gearchanges in a synchromesh car (some gearboxes are more forgiving than others - my 10-year-old Peugeot is so warn than it is *very* forgiving!) I wouldn't have a clue about how to double-declutch - ie how to adjust the engine speed "offline" with no feedback as to when you've got it just right and the gear just slips in. Trying to learn on a sync box is a hiding to nothing because it will

*always* work, no matter whether you are right or very, very wrong.

Did drivers of non-sync boxes tend to go through the time-consuming faff of double-declutching (down, change neutral, up, blip-or-wait, down, change new gear, up) or did they tend to do clutchless changes in practice, where at least you get immediate feedback and can increase or decrease the revs until the gear slips in on the fly?

(*) Although in those days, and as recently as when I took my test in 1980, the way the driving test expected you to drive was to change down through the gears, so second to first was expected of you. It took a bit of unlearning when I was preparing for my IAM advanced test in 1990, where they advocate braking in whatever gear you happen to be in, dropping the clutch just before the engine protests, and then going straight from (for example) sixth to whatever gear you need to accelerate away - which may be second if you can keep rolling at a give way junction or may be first if you need to stop. I would find it *very* difficult to go back to changing down through the gears nowadays.

[NY]

Would a modern test expect great braking force than older cars (especially with drums) could achieve?

Are there any parts of the test (emissions excluded) where they apply different thresholds depending on the age and vintage of the vehicle. I know that emissions tests are increasingly stringent as the Euro number increases for more modern engines. I've been told that the "no smoke" rule is applied more on a Euro 6 car than on my ten year old Euro 4 car, and maybe the NOx and particulates tests are more stringent too on a Euro 6 car.

[tabbypurr]

With a crawler gear, any thought of ever changing from 2nd to 1st while mov ing is out of the question. A baby could crawl faster than top speed in 1st . Obviously that does not apply to cars where 1st is for routine use.

I've always done it that way, and always regarded going down through the ge ars as poor practice. Keeping your hands at 2:10 on the wheel is another ba d practice required by driving testers. A noticeable amount of modern drivi ng advice comes from pre-war times, with the original reasons having long d isappeared.

NT

[NY]

No. The oldest car I've driven was my mum's Morris Minor (off-road on an airfield, because I was only about 12 at the time!) and I could detect a dramatic difference between her car (about 15 years old at the time) and my dad's modern Hillman Hunter which I drove straight afterwards - it took a lot of revving to get her car moving without stalling and there was clutch judder, and it took a *lot* longer to brake to a halt from the same speed as in the Hillman.

What is an eye-opener is that at 15, that Morris was (to put it politely) shagged-out, both mechanically and in the body panels which rusted through - the wings were 90% Plastic Padding by the end (*). My present car is coming up to 10 years old but has done considerably more miles (170,000) but it still behaves well and isn't showing its signs of age. That's no doubt due to better construction and design, and good rust-proofing of panels (and more use of plastic panels!).

(*) My dad gouged out the rusty bits with a screwdriver, stuck fine wire mesh on the rear surface with Plastic Padding and then filled the front with PP and sanded it smooth. It looked quite good after its first coat of primer, but he then spoiled things by painting the whole car with a vile baby-blue coat of *household gloss* paint, so there were brush marks and drip marks all over it. The car looked a joke after that.

[T i m]

Luckily my Messerschmitt KR200 (with it's single stop light) is classified as a Motorised tricycle so (hopefully?) can stay as it was built. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

'Historic', but close. ;-)

Only if they comply with the rules for such (so not 'all' cars).

"Exemptions

Knowing the exclusions that apply to the new rules is essential. These exemptions are:

If your vehicle has been substantially changed in the last 30 years, then it will still require its MoT. There is some guidance on this below.

If you?re not able to determine whether your vehicle has been substantially changed, you should not claim to be exempt from testing.

Buses, public service vehicles, and commercially used vehicles with eight or more seats registered before 1960 are excluded, and will require testing.

Buses over 40 years old that are not public service vehicles will be exempt from MoT testing from May 20, provided they meet the new definition of ?vehicle of historical interest?.

A vehicle issued with a registration number with a ?Q? prefix that infers it has an unknown registration date

Kit cars assembled from components from different makes and models

Reconstructed classic vehicle as defined by the DVLA

Kit conversion cars that see new parts added to an existing vehicle or older car parts added onto the kit of a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell."

This is quite a good overview:

Cheers, T i m

[Vir Campestris]

Be sure about that. The lead was also a lubricant for the valves in some cars.

Andy

[NY]

I had various things like that drummed into me by my driving instructor - I still remember "footbrake to stop the car; handbrake and *not footbrake* to stay stopped", which I still adhere to (*). But I think he was in a difficult position because he had to teach various things (eg changing down through the gears) because the ordinary test demanded you pay lip service to them at that time, but in a previous life he'd been a police Class 1 driving instructor so he'd taught the Advanced Driver way of doing things, such as block gearchanges, moving from outside of bend to inside at the apex etc.

After I'd passed he took me for an extra lesson on a motorway and told me about how "real" drivers drive when they haven't got an examiner looking over their shoulder. I still do the little dodge that he taught me: whenever I stop and I'm about to get out, or whenever I get in, I always waggle the gear lever from side to side, to prove to myself that the car is in neutral and won't lurch forward when I let the clutch up before stopping the engine, or when I start the engine.

I tend to keep my hands *roughly* at 10-to-2 in normal driving (unless I'm getting tired on a motorway and I rest my arms on my knees and let my hands drop to twenty-to-four). And when I'm steering through a large angle, I try not to let my left hand go past midnight onto the right side - I go from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock in one move then let the opposite hand go from 12 to

2. I remember once appearing in a little video that we were making at night school and the "director" (one of the other students) commented that I drove like a new driver, with my 10-to-2 and not letting my hands go past midnight, so I had to consciously do what he wanted from the "wide boy" character that I was playing, even though I'd just learned the IAM way for my advanced test. Racing drivers, who habitually cross their hands, would no doubt think it was very staid :-)

The need to do a 3-point-turn for the driving test is one of the anachronisms that the test teaches you. If I ever need to turn round, I usually reverse into a driveway, gateway or side road, rather than blocking the whole road while I turn round. And I doubt that anyone who *is* doing a

3-point-turn ever puts their handbrake on and waits till the car has come to a complete halt before going between first and reverse. But you've got to be careful with going from first to reverse: my car is happy to let me do it - all the cars I've had have been like that - but both of my wife's Hondas make a graunching if I haven't come to a complete halt. Obviously I'm only talking about changing gear with the clutch still down, as opposed to letting it up before the car has stopped when the plates will be going in opposite directions :-)

(*) Being blinded by the brake lights of the stationary car ahead of me in a traffic queue is one thing that I would punish with the death sentence :-)

[Bob Eager]

I had a Series I Land Rover, with no sync on first or second. I experimented to start with (lucky those boxes are tough), and was soon able to do clutchless 'up' changes. I never quite mastered clutchless 'down' changes, usually into second of course; I went through the full faff, which became pretty automatic.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Care to name a 60s car which didn't have synchromesh on all other than first and reverse?

Also, because of overall low gearing, pretty well no need to ever change down into first gear on the move. Many cars of that era would happily start from rest in second gear on the level.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Mostly. So it quite ok to let those which are neglected onto public roads with no checks whatsoever?

If so, why not abolish the MOT for all vehicles?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you think every single car over 40 years old is maintained to perfection, you live in a very different world to the one I know.

And removing the need for an MOT would simply make this worse. It certainly ain't going to make it better.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Plenty could and do. The MOT brake test is very basic. It doesn't test how well the brakes work at speed. Which is what would let down many older cars - but not all.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No. The most a rolling road test can do is test the brakes to the point were the wheel locks. And plenty older cars could manage that. BTW, a 40 year old car would be pre 1978. All round disc brakes were first fitted to some cars 20 years earlier. We also had the same maximum speed limit in the UK. With most cars of the day capable of exceeding it.

Yes. You can't obviously expect an engine with a carb and crude ignition system (and no cat.) to have the same emissions as now.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The Rolls V8 is an all ally engine. So has hardened valve seats fitted. Rolls claimed none of their engines ever built would be damaged by a lack of lead as a lubricant. The V8, would however, need the ignition retarded to avoid detonation on lower octane petrol. But I'm told is perfectly happy with Super unleaded.

Engines which really needed lead to prevent valve damage had cast iron cylinder heads with the seats cut direct in that.

[Jethro_uk]

FIAT 500