What the heck goes into the trash can (as opposed to recycling?)

Mike Duffy wrote on Tue, 03 May 2016 10:00:27 -0400:

My only point was that poop is poop and poop is good fertilizer and who cares if it has toxoplasmosis when it's fertilizer?

You care if babies eat the stuff, but in my back yard, there are no babies.

Anyway, if I had cats (which I don't) and if I kept them inside (which I would think is cruel for a cat) and if they therefore needed kitty litter, I would feel happy to recycle that kitty litter by dumping it in the compost heap along with everything else.

I guess, the end results of the question is that most people are far more picky about what they put in the three locations:

  1. Waste that is composted at the household
  2. Waste that is put in the trash to go to a landfill
  3. Waste that is recycled

I guess I'm just less picky than most of you and thankfully, since we put almost everything in the blue buckets that comes from inside the house, the trash collectors are apparently not that picky either.

Lucky us. Our prices seem on par with everyone elses for once/week pickup at roughly a dollar a day.

Reply to
Arthur Cresswell
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Steve Stone wrote on Tue, 03 May 2016 07:28:41 -0400:

I always wondered about that.

I am in hill country so the septic system is down hill by a lot. I don't know how far, but I see a white pipe sticking up which is about 100 feet from the house.

I don't know where the cleanout is even and I've lived here a decade.

I guess I'm not doing something that I should be doing, but how would I even know that my septic system would need to be pumped out if I don't even know where it is completely or where the drain is?

I realize that if it stunk and weeped I'd know that, but I think, given it's on a steep slope, the chance of that happening seems slim.

How would I even test that my septic is getting close to being filled?

Reply to
Arthur Cresswell

trader_4 wrote on Tue, 03 May 2016 05:26:47 -0700:

The wife makes mayonaise from three ingredients:

  1. An egg
  2. A squeeze of lemon
  3. oil

She blends that in a way that takes skill (because I always end up with a mess but she ends up with mayo) and it stays in the plastic container until it is used up (usually it's about a cup of oil at a time because you can't really make less and blend it successfully).

We just rinse it out in the dishwasher, and it seems to come clean.

Reply to
Arthur Cresswell

HerHusband wrote on Tue, 03 May 2016 14:55:30 +0000:

I was wondering about that because my septic system is about 100 feet or so away and down a hill so I guess it's 20 feet below the house.

I don't even know where the cleanouts are. I haven't touched it since I moved in 10 years ago, and, well, who knows how long it was in use before that.

So, how do they "inspect" it anyway? I presume I have to find the cleanout and then open it, and then what?

Do you just look?

Reply to
Arthur Cresswell

Arthur Cresswell wrote on Tue, 03 May 2016 23:03:36 +0000:

Same by the way with the ketchup.

When we need ketchup (catsup?), the wife whips up a batch out of:

  1. Tomato paste
  2. Vinegar
  3. Spices (interestingly enough, stuff that is used in pumpkin pies!)

When the catsup/ketchup is done, we put the plastic container in the dishwasher. Where the catsup goes from there, I never see it.

It is a pain to have to rinse out the tomato paste cans.

They should make tomato paste cans like they make caulking guns.

Reply to
Arthur Cresswell

On Mon, 02 May 2016 21:09:16 +0000, Arthur Cresswell wrote:

My recycling program says these are the acceptable items for recycling:

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Highlights: Please empty and rinse all food and beverage containers. Batteries Standard household batteries Place in a clear, sealed plastic bag and set on top of the recycling cart. Glass All glass food, beverage jars and bottles. Remove lids and place separately in bin. Fruit juice Mayonnaise jars Spaghetti sauce jars Metal All metal food and beverage containers. Aluminum cans Tin/steel food and beverage cans Plastic All rigid containers marked #1 - #7 Milk and juice jugs Shampoo, detergent, and other household bottles Soft drink and water bottles Yogurt, margarine, and other food containers Paper Put mixed paper in the toter labeled: Mixed / Office Paper. Adhesive notes Brown paper grocery bags Cardboard (Break down boxes and bundle larger pieces securely using twine and place next to container) Envelopes (Including plastic window types) Food boxes (cereal, crackers, frozen food - Remove plastic liners) Junk mail Magazines & catalogs Newspaper Paper (colored, computer, white) Paper bags Paper egg cartons, paper towel rolls Phone books Wrapping Paper Used motor oil may be set out in one-gallon plastic containers with tight fitting, screw top lids only. You may place up to two one-gallon containers next to your recycling cart for pickup and empty recycled one-gallon containers will be left in their place. Place fully drained motor oil filters in a sealed, leak-proof, plastic bag and place next to your recycle cart.

Unacceptable Recycling Materials Construction Debris Concrete, rocks, dirt Electronic / Universal Waste Televisions, computers, cell phones, batteries, fluorescent light bulbs, mercury switches Household Hazardous Waste Paints, solvents, cooking oil, motor oil, cleaners, corrosives, fuel tanks - propane tanks, syringes

This is what it says goes in the garbage can:

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Glass Auto, mirror and tinted glass Glassware, crystal and dinnerware Household window glass Light bulbs (except fluorescent bulbs) Metal Clothes hangers Foil Pots and pans Scrap metal Wire rope Organic Material Animal feces or manure Food scraps Paper Milk cartons and other waxed paper Paper towels, napkins and facial tissues Soiled papers, food wrappings, napkins, tissues or towels Plastic Bubble wrap PVC or other plastic piping Shrink wrap and plastic bags and liners Styrofoam/polystyrene containers and packing peanuts Toys, trays, cups, garden hoses, flower pots Unmarked plastics

Reply to
Danny DiAmico
[plastic "grocery bags"]

We visit many stores in a typical shopping day. We use a reusable bag at two of them -- lined with a paper bag (that we obtain from a third). As it's always hot, here, we carry one or two coolers with us (even though we're close to home). So, anything refrigerated or frozen goes straight into a cooler -- no bags needed.

Most other things are large enough to not need a bag of their own (e.g., a 12pack of grinder rolls, a 30 pack of toilet paper, etc.). We keep an oversized milk crate (it's "rectangular" instead of "square") in the back of the vehicle which we use to transport the larger items and keep them from jostling around in transit.

We use the flimsy plastic bags when we purchase flour or sugar as we wrap the sacks of flour/sugar with these bags prior to storing them in the freezer. (I buy flour in 50lb lots -- usually when it is on sale)

Every few weeks, the paper grocery bag "liner" that we use in the reusable bag ends up with a "fatal tear". So, we'll replace ONE with the *one* paper bag that we collect on that week's shopping trip and toss the torn one in the recycling container

Yup. And, they often get "sucked" out of trash bins in the neighborhood.

What I find most annoying is folks who will buy one little thing -- and want it in a bag. Sheesh, it's already IN its *own* bag, why do you need yet another?

The place from which we obtain our ONE paper bag each week always wants to double bag -- because the handles tear off the bags! So, *I* opt to do the bagging and then just grab the bag from the bottom as we leave; no need to discard TWO paper bags!

We keep ours in the back of the car (stored in that milk crate). So, all we have to do is remember to take them out before we head into the store. Otherwise, it's a hundred foot walk BACK to the car to retrieve it...

Reply to
Don Y

So BFD. Other than PC libbies, tree huggers, and the save-the-whales crowd- who gives a rat's ass?

Reply to
Travis Bickle

You are so right about computer crash, and the endless work to get all the programs "just right".

Good job, sir, about sending less computer to the landfill. You aren't keeping the economy going, spending money on computers. But you do reduce the landfill waste.

As for me, I'm on about my 4th power supply for this

2007 model frankencomputer. It's alive!
Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Don,

I'm betting all of your accounts are already online, they just print them out and mail them to you. Not to mention, many places are starting to charge for printed statements.

We've been all electronic for many years. Paychecks are deposited automatically, bills are deducted automatically, statements are downloaded to my computer. I pay most of our remaining bills online (property taxes, vehicle licenses, etc.). I have probably written fewer than three checks in the last several years.

Electronic documents don't take up physical space (other than the hard drive itself), but more importantly I can have multiple backups of each document.

Unfortunately, I usually need to sell my old items in order to pay for the new items.

We use Advil for headaches and inflammation. Aleve works better for sore muscles. Pepto-bismol pills for the rare times dinner doesn't settle well. :)

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

Arthur,

I have to dig down and expose the access cover of the septic tank. I think the inspector will dig it up, but I know exactly where it is located. Thankfully, the top of my septic tank is only 6" below the ground.

They open the cover and use a pole with a board on it to take measurements. They measure the sludge build up at the bottom of the tank, and the scum layer floating on top. They also do a quick visual inspection of the drain field, to make sure it's not a smelly swamp or something. Takes them less than 10 minutes, then they charge me $125.

If the scum or sludge layers build up too close to the inlet pipe, they are required to pump the tank. Naturally, the cost goes way up if they have to pump.

When the county first started the inspection program here, they just routinely pumped the tanks every few years.

Then they switched to actually measuring the contents and only pumping when needed. Initially, they allowed homeowners to take the measurements, but I don't know if they allow that anymore.

We're actually due for our septic inspection next month.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

No doubt. But, as *we've* never set up to access them (which would stop the paper statements from coming), we're pretty sure no one else is seeing them. And, as we have the sole "physical" mailed copy, we're pretty sure no one is seeing the paper copies, either.

One of my checking accounts tried to go that route -- wanting $8.95/month for the paper copies of the statements (thinking that would coerce me into going electronic). I thanked them for their offer by closing the account. Always someone ready to hold my money on my terms! :>

We write very few checks -- use plastic and cash for most payments so just pay off the credit card companies each month. An order of 100 checks can last me many years.

I am always amused when I see these folks with 5-digit check numbers!

Yup. OTOH, you're reliant on a medium that you can't implicitly verify (can you LOOK at a thumb drive/CD/DVD/etc. and KNOW that it is intact?)

Late in my career, I learned to gather electronic versions of every document that I was using in a project. E.g., much easier to keep a PDF of a 1200 page datasheet than to keep a physical copy of it -- esp when you might need several different documents for a single project. I find *using* the documents in electronic form to be tedious. OTOH, coming back to a project after some time is much easier with electronic documents as I can search for something that I remember (and no longer have a dog-eared copy to notice the bookmarks).

My solution is to buy inexpensive items :> E.g., I bought a 25 ft USB A-B cable today -- for a buck. And, three wireless Logitech mice for a buck each.

Biggest cash layouts in years have been for external USB disks -- roughly $100/each.

Learn to cook better! :> (I find Pepto-Bismol to be *nasty* stuff!)

I use Advil for the occasional headache -- esp during allergy season(s) (which is virtually year round, here). Usually a pair will fix things.

Reply to
Don Y

Don,

That doesn't prevent hackers from accessing the online electronic versions. Just ask Home Depot, Target, Sony, etc...

Unfortunately, there are no alternatives for many of my bills (garbage, electric, cable internet, etc.). You either pay the paper fee or go electronic.

Yep, same here. I'm sure the banks don't like us as we have't paid a finance charge in many, many years.

We're still using the same checks we bought 25+ years ago. We're up to check number 2200 now. We almost never use checks anymore. The few places that still required them (income taxes, property taxes, etc.) have now gone electronic too.

We still have several books of checks left from that original order. They'll probably last the rest of our lives. :)

Flash drives and optical discs are bad backup mediums. I think flash drives are rated for only 5 years, and I've had CD's become unreadable after just a year. I only use those for short term storage, specifically when I need to mail data to someone else.

Blu-Ray's are "supposed" to be longer lasting (25+ years), but I don't trust them for my sole backups. There are discs made by M-Disc that are supposed to last 1000+ years, but the cost and storage limits are still an issue.

I'm more about redundancy. I backup to hard drives because they're fast, inexpensive, and can store a lot of data. But I EXPECT the drive to fail at some point, so I have multiple hard drive backups. I also backup important data to BluRay discs every so often just to have another copy.

The one downside to rewriteable backups (flash drives and hard drives) is that the data can change. If the data on my main drive is corrupted (drive failure, virus, etc.), my automated backups can copy that corrupted data to my backup drive (overwriting the previous backup with the new corrupted backup). I may not discover it until it is too late. That's one of the reasons I still backup to BluRays every now and then. As long as the disc is still readable, I know the data won't change.

As for verifying the data, there are programs that can calculate MD5 hashes for the files on the drive. This allows you to quickly verify that the files on the drive have not changed since they were written to the drive. Of course, it's a time consuming process to calculate the hashes, and I'm probably not going to take the time to verify the documents. So, I stopped doing the MD5 hashing, and just rely on multiple copies.

Paper documents aren't necessarily foolproof either. A while back I went through our fire safe to clean out documents we no longer needed. I was surprised to find that most of the thermal printed documents (most store receipts) were completely faded. They were just white pieces of paper. Thankfully, I had previously scanned the important receipts so I still had electronic copies.

You could have similar issues with fire, water damage, or insects.

It took me a while to adapt to balancing our checkbooks using the PDF bank statements instead of the printed statements I was used to. Now it seems just as easy as the paper versions.

We cook well, but sometimes we might drink a little too much, or eat something we knew we shouldn't. For example, I hadn't eaten a donut in years but gave in to temptation last week and bought some maple bars. Big mistake, I was up all night with indigestion. I won't do that again. I just can't tolerate fatty foods like that anymore.

I hate the liquid version of Pepto-Bismol too, but the pill versions work just as well without the yucky factor. :)

I don't have any allergies and rarely get a headache. But Advil does work best for headaches. It also works good for things like sore throats, or swelling. It doesn't seem to do anything for sore muscles though.

We find Aleve to be a miracle drug for muscle pain.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

Of course! Nor the IRS, etc. But, we don't have accounts with Home Depot, Sony, Target, etc.

What it does prevent is malware on any machine that *we* use to access them from leaking that information to a bad guy. If you're "on-line" (with "that" machine -- i.e., to pay bills and access accounts) often, then you are more likely to encounter something you "shouldn't" (e.g., a driveby), drop your guard for a moment, use it to ALSO read mail/WWW/etc.

It actually costs *more* for us to pay electronically with some of our bills. E.g., city water/sewer charges an extra fee for that "service".

I'm pretty OCD when it comes to paying bills on time. Had to rush home for one of those "hopefully he'll still be alive when you get here" sort of events. Grabbed a laptop (to work), a change of clothes (have laundry facilities there!) and my checkbook.

I was there ~2+ months. Consulted the payment dates in the checkbook to know when each bill would be coming (I pay promptly when I receive the bill). Then, telephoned each entity to inquire as to my current balance (account numbers recorded in the comments field for each checkbook entry) and the address to which I should mail the payment.

I find (canceled) checks are a great "receipt" for many of my business purchases. I don't have to look through lists of every credit card purchase to try to understand what each charge may have been.

Flash drives that see repeated use tend to fail, IME. I have a 32G drive that's essentially new that will only write at ~1MB/s. It's on the list to be replaced, today (stores a copy of MP3's for the car's player)

OTOH, I'm pretty confident copying last year's tax return onto the "Finances" thumb drive that we keep in the bug-out-bag.

I've had great luck with optical media (CD/DVD) lasting 5 or more years. Likewise, tape and MO media. But, I tend to "baby" it -- cool, dark places, etc. Also, record on the slowest setting possible, no overburns, etc.

Yes. I probably have ~20+T in my archive. But, that incorporates the redundancy -- at least two copies of everything. I have every "object" tracked in a database using a simple schema: (unique_identifier, name, container, checksum, other-meta-data) So, a file called "2015" residing in "/Finances/Taxes/Federal" on the "XYZ" volume has the following entries: (1, "XYZ", -, ...) (2, "Finances", 1, ...) (3, "Taxes", 2, ...) (5, "Federal", 3, ...) (82, "2015", 5, ...) A backup copy called "IRS" in "/MyFiles/2015" on the BB volume would add: (70, "BB", -, ...) (951, "MyFiles", 70, ...) (952, "2015", 951, ...) (955, "IRS", 952, ...) While another called "2015" in "/Taxes/IRS.zip" on the XYZ volume adds: (79, "Taxes", 1, ...) (10023, "IRS.zip", 79, ...) (88888, "2015", 10023, ...) I.e., each of these objects are the same object (contents) just with different names and in different containers (a container can obviously be a directory or an "archive file").

Because they will all have the same "checksum" (hash), I can automagically locate potential duplicates -- by those hashes ("name" is immaterial). Then, track down where they are located by walking the tuples backwards.

So, I can have as many copies as I want -- on as many different media/volumes! I.e., as long as the "volume name" is unique, I don't care if it is a CD, DVD, internal hard disk, CF card, MO cartridge, tape reel, etc. Find it, mount it and the database will tell you how to retrieve the desired "contents".

And, because I have a stored hash of each object's "desired" contents, I can periodically walk through any mounted volumes and verify their contents against the stored hashes. So, I know if a medium is degrading

*before* it fails -- as well as what its contents "were" -- so I can recreate it on a fresh medium!

Exactly. The flaw in most backup scenarios (and why I have the "active scrubbing" mechanism outlined above). You *may* get an ECC error ("read error") when you try to make that backup. But, the "drive/transport/driver" usually won't let you see the raw, "corrupted" data in those events! So, you can't even decide if "everything looks intact except the name on the document is AnThony instead of Anthony (single bit flip)!

Then, you are reliant on some ad hoc scheme to recall where THE backup of this file is located so you can (hopefully) use it to restore THIS instance.

I have appliances that I designed that do this as soon as they are turned on. I.e., if I need to access some files from the archive (for a new project, etc.), then I fire up the appliance(s), mount the particular volumes that the database has told me contain the files of interest (usually a large sub-tree -- like /Projects/1988/ClientX/ProjectY) and pull a copy of the files off the archive onto medium is appropriate for my current need.

Once the appliance is up and the drive(s) spinning, the "verify job" resumes -- and just keeps marching through whichever volume(s) happen to be mounted, checking hashes based on where the job left off the last time it "saw" these volume(s).

So, I just leave the box run for a while and let it slog through as much as it can -- before I decide to spin everything down. In that way, the "verification" is essentially free -- I don't have to wait for EVERYTHING to be verified; just let it remember how much progress it made so that it can pick up from that point next time.

[I store "timestamp of last verify" with each database tuple so I can query the database and figure out which objects have NOT been verified in the longest time -- and, how long that has been]

Note that I can incorporate "original media" into this scheme as well! Just make an entry for the volume identity of the original medium (e.g., the DVD for Windows7 install) and let the software catalog the files on the medium, the "containers" for each and their hashes. If I clone any of those files to any other place in the archive system, I'll be able to find those copies based on the hashes and other metadata!

Yup! The same is true for NCR paper and many store receipts. We photocopy documents before archiving cuz the photocopies seem to be more resilient. (some of my early tax records have lots of "blank slips of paper" tucked in the folders -- all the "original receipts" documenting those purchases! :< )

Yup. And CD/DVD/BRay/MO/tape/etc. are just as vulnerable to fire, water damage, etc. OTOH, paper rarely suffers from a "bearing failure"... :>

(Do you have backups of the various *drives* that each of these media require?)

I just balance using the check register. Once an entry (deposit, withdrawal, check, etc.) has been accounted for, I "check it off" in the register. So, I know the calculations that it was involved in are correct. All I have to do is deal with the (few) new entries since the most recent "checkpoint".

I only use the bank statement to know which items have cleared and what THEY think my balance should be. Irritating if a check is slow to be processed but no big deal to add that amount back into "my" balance.

Thankfully, I don't appear to have any similar problems. I once got sick from some "bad chicken" I tasted as a sampler. Taught me not to eat *in* grocery stores!

We don't drink so that's not a risk (SWMBO might have a shot of brandy if she's having trouble falling asleep; I just make sure I'm dead tired! :> )

Unfortunately, I have *lots* of "seasonal allergies". My scratch test results raised eyebrows. And, here, things are ALWAYS growing. So, it's just one allergen after another. Apparently manifests in sinuses leading to headaches above/behind the eyes, etc.

SLIT regimen this year seems to be making a difference. Never should have stopped it, previously. :<

I find it invaluable for "lack of sleep" headaches. Often, can't GET to sleep if fighting one of those! Of course, going to sleep "as required" would also eliminate the problem... :<

I guess I just consider sore muscles to be a natural consequence of physical labor. Never thought of "taking" anything for them -- other than a nice hot shower. And, a good sleep that night!

Reply to
Don Y

Don,

I have a couple of annual bills that charge a small fee like that (1 dollar I think). The alternative is to write a check, put it in an envelope, stick a stamp on, and drive to the post office to mail it. All of those add up to a lot more than the dollar service fee. Even if it's cheaper to write the check, the convenience is worth it to me. With a few clicks I can pay and be done with it.

I'm the same way, which is one of the reasons I setup auto pay for every bill I could. Paychecks get deposited and bills get paid even if I'm sick, on vacation, or otherwise unable to pay them on time.

The only catch is that you have to have the money in the bank account, but we budget the money before we even get the bills, so it's always there.

Yep, writing is harder on flash drives than reading, but you're still relying on an electrical charge that fades over time. The odds are good that your data will still be readable, but there's always a chance it won't be. What if you lose the flash drive, or it gets damaged physically?

Optical discs tend to degrade from the outer edge inward as the organic dyes break down. Most discs aren't filled to capacity, so the degradation may not be a problem for most uses.

Back when I used CD's for backups, I used software that split the data over multiple discs. It filled each disc to capacity, so data was written right out to very edge of the disc. I babied the discs in cool, dark places too, but several discs had numerous errors just a year later when I tried to verify them.

Magnetic media seems to be fairly reliable as long as you keep them away from magnetic fields.

My system is no where as complicated. I keep everything on the 1TB drive in my computer. That gets backed up several times a day to an external

3TB USB drive. Once a month or so, I swap that backup drive with another drive I keep in a safe deposit box at the bank. Then once or twice a year I make a "last hope" backup to blu-ray discs.

Ironically, I haven't needed to restore anything from my backups since I put the system in place many years ago. :)

Yep, it's extremely rare, but it has happened to me in the past.

I wish someone would make external WORM drives (write once, read many) with decent capacity at an affordable price. Sandisk used to make 1GB USB WORM drives but I don't think they're available anymore. 1GB is way too small these days anyway. It wouldn't even hold a short HD video.

The M-Disc's are probably the closest to that idea, but they're expensive and the 25GB capacity is still quite limited.

That's why I keep a second backup in my safe deposit box. If I have a major disaster at home, I'll still have the drive at the bank. If the bank is destroyed, I still have my copies at home.

I live on a mountain, the bank is down in the valley. So the odds of us suffering the same disaster are unlikely. If we're both hit, my computer data is probably the least of my worries...

Nope, but I have redundency. If one drive fails, I still have two other copies to fall back on. Three if you count the Blu-Ray discs.

I also migrate my backups to new drives as technology improves. Actually, I usually upgrade to new drives long before they wear out because I need more storage space.

I used to live on fried foods. Then my wife insisted I started eating healthier. It took a while to adjust but now that's just our normal diet. Now if I try to eat the foods I used to enjoy, they make me feel tired and bloated.

I am thankful I do not have any allergies. Every spring the pollen here in the forest is so bad my black car turns a shade of green. It's a mess to clean up, but I don't get so much as a sniffle.

With only rare exceptions, I have never had a problem sleeping either. I'm out as soon as I hit the bed and easily sleep 8 hours without waking up. I wake up refreshed and excited to start a new day.

Unfortunately, I've struggled with back pain most of my life. Sometimes it gets so bad I have sharp painful spasms that drop me to the ground. Extremely painful. I usually have to go to the doctor and take muscle relaxers for a few days when it gets that bad.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

To each his own. SWMBO had something tied to one of the checking accounts. Then, ended up with a hassle when she closed that account; have to notify the vendor of new account, etc. Easier just to decide how you're going to pay *when* you go to pay, IMO.

SWMBO likes to drag things out to the last possible minute -- she'll write out a check, put it in a stamped envelope and slap a Post-It on top telling her which day to mail it.

I, OTOH, open mail and pay immediately -- so I don't have to remember to pay something.

But, we're real anal about these sorts of things. Never late fees, etc. E.g., I don't think I've ever been late returning a book to the library!

Yup. And, as geometries shrink and folks use MLC (esp for consumer kit), that "charge" is on the order of 100 electrons! (amazing!)

Same thing with any medium.

I don't like flash drives because they hide information regarding their operating state. You have to *infer* that the drive is failing based on how long it takes to write to it *as* it nears capacity (most USB sticks have no overprovisioning). So, when you can *sense* there's a problem, it's already THERE! (you get no advanced warning)

I had one drive that spontaneously decided to become "read only". It gave me reliable access to my data -- but no way to erase or overwrite any of it!

I just tossed a (practically new!) 32G drive presently that only writes at 1MB/s. Yeah, they're inexpensive but what value the DATA they hold?

This is also true of "printed" discs. E.g., in the laser video disc days, it was called "laser rot". I've also encountered store-bought (prerecorded) audio CD's that were defective.

And, with the extensive ECC employed on them, you have no way of knowing how *much* error correcting is happening "under the hood"; no way to anticipate failures!

You have to "retension" tape periodically to avoid "print through".

Obviously, I've got a lot more "data" in my archive. :>

I've got about 1T of audio/music, alone (plus 1T to mirror that). I can recover all of it from the original CD's (stored under the bed) but it is a HUGE hassle to do so!

Disks are way too convenient. And, thankfully, cheap. If you aren't looking for performance (access time), then even consumer grade stuff is good enough.

I've used the "cold archive" approach virtually since the beginning. Originally, I used SCSI disks that I kept piled on a shelf in the closet. I would pull the drive of interest off the shelf, plug it into a SCSI enclosure, spin the drive up and mount it (all of this can be done without rebooting the computer -- much like you can with USB, now). Then, pull the files I want from the drive. When done, power it down and move it back onto the shelf.

I'd keep two copies of each drive -- same make/model. So, if something happened to one copy, I could retrieve the desired information from the second copy (hard to call one of them a "backup" as they are both effectively "backups").

Some time in the 90's, I was using 4G drives for my archive. I'd bought a couple dozen (significant investment, back then!) to try to consolidate my archive onto fewer media.

One day, I went to pull some stuff off of a (cold) drive and the drive "crashed" (still spinning, but totally corrupted). I wasn't keen at the idea that I'd lost a $1K drive, but figured the data was the real "value", there.

So, I pulled the second copy off the shelf and installed it, instead. And it, too, died miserably! (WTF???)

[At that time, I wasn't in the habit of installing the write protect jumpers on the drives!]

Long story short: a bug in the OS's SCSI disk driver was incompatible with this particular make/model disk. I.e., it would "crash" EVERY one of my drives, if I gave it the chance!

So, I backed out that most recent OS upgrade, reformatted the two "failed" drives and rebuilt them from a copy I kept on MO media (I take the integrity of my archive VERY seriously!)

Other than that fiasco, any other "losses" have been Operator Error. Usually, typing on the wrong keyboard (sending the 'rm *' command to the wrong computer). But, as I keep frequent updates (I push files to one or more NAS's while I am working -- so I can undo changes without having to deal with the VCS), I seldom lose much of anything (other than my dignity).

I have (small capacity) MO drives in the 600M-1G-4G capacity. Some years ago, I stumbled on a cache of NOS 652MB IBM MO cartridges. Cost me $7 for a lot of 200-300 of them. "Such a deal" :> Slow but a *backup* of an archive can be dog slow as it's rarely used!

At one time, I had a WORM drive that could handle laser video discs (12" media). But, media was way too expensive (and the recorder was essentially a piece of furniture!)

I use tape for "small-ish" backups -- ~40G on a cartridge. The advantage they have is that I can remove them (to prevent me from overwriting) and set them aside with a label. Too easy to lose track of which "folder" holds which set of backup files on a large disk!

I gave all my clients advanced warning a few years ago that I wouldn't be taking on new business. Implicit in that is "if you've got any problems with any of my OLD business, speak now" (I guaranteed ongoing free support for all my work). So, I will gradually be retiring those portions of my archive that aren't of "personal value" and reclaiming or repurposing the resources that were previously set aside for those uses. (but, even THAT takes time/effort!)

Sorry, I meant "backup BluRay drive, backup *tape* drive, etc." I.e. whatever hardware is required to access the media on which your data resides.

[I've used lots of different media over the years so have had lots of different "drives" to address those media.]

Ditto. I've been opting for the cheap consumer drives in that regard. Of course, if there's a manufacturing flaw, I can get screwed in a heartbeat (as it would likely impact more than one instance of a particular product).

I choose which media in which I want to "invest" my IP. Certain things are more precious than others -- and warrant more effort and resources. (If I lost my music archive, I'd just shrug. OTOH, if I lost the sources for my current project, I'd be pretty annoyed!)

Ah. SWMBO has a pretty rational diet. So, this keeps me from indulging in past "bad practices". E.g., I used to just buy a beef tenderloin and have the butcher cut it into steaks; then eat one each evening. Yummy! But, apparently all that red meat is not a good thing :<

["If it tastes good, spit it out!"]

She also insists on *balanced* meals. I.e., not JUST that piece of meat (regardless of how large it is). So, unless we want to cook twice as many meals each day, we have to come up with a compromise...

Our vehicles are currently yellow if sitting outdoors for more than a few hours. I can't do anything about what others have chosen to plant. Nor the flora that is typical for this region (to much of which I am seriously allergic).

And, unfortunately, many of the things we *want* in the yard (hummingbird friendly, citrus, etc.) are also triggers for me. I lined the front entrance with Texas Mountain Laurels: as they are drought tolerant, present an effective "privacy screen" and are delightfully fragrant when in bloom (smells like Welch's grape soda). But, enjoying their scent comes with a price tag... :<

My problem is GOING to bed and STAYING in bed. E.g., I went to bed just before 6A this morning. And, was up at 8:30A. It's now 11P and I'm just getting into my "stride"...

I've got some back problems -- but no back *pain*. I'm very aware of how I use my back lest I aggravate things. If I do, pain meds aren't the answer! :<

Reply to
Don Y

Don,

I encountered something like that when someone made unauthorized charges to our credit card. I had to get a new card which meant updating all the accounts that were tied to it. Yeah, it's a hassle, but it's a very rare event. The convenience of not having to spend a lot of time and effort paying bills each month is worth it.

For backup purposes, flash drives cost way too much per gigabyte.

I have a drawer full of old flash drives that I've probably used less than

5-10 times each. We upgrade to new drives with more capacity long before we wear them out. I have a 256MB and a 512MB drive on my desk now, basically useless these days, but I don't know what to do with them.

I also have a stack of 8GB SD cards on my desk from our digital cameras. We upgraded to 16GB or 32GB cards for the camera and camcorder, so now I've got a bunch of empty cards sitting around.

Sheesh, I only have about 100GB on my C: boot drive, a bit over 500GB on my D: data drive, and roughly 100GB on my daughters computer.

Oh, nope, I don't have a backup Blu-Ray drive, but they're still widely available at this point. I don't really rely on the blu-ray backups to be readable anyway, they're just one more layer of protection. My main drive and both external backup drives would have to fail before I need the blu- ray backup.

I can relate. My parents used to buy a full side of beef and keep it in the freezer. Almost every meal was a steak, hamburger, etc.

Now I only eat beef once a week or less.

I was a night owl when I was a teenager, but now we're usually in bed by

9:30pm and up by 5:30am.

My build causes a lot of my problems, since my back arches more than most. Makes me look stupid when I walk too. :)

But, I usually don't realize I've overworked my back until it's too late. I get focused on whatever task I'm working on, and end up paying for it later.

Of course, the older I get, the more out of shape I get, and the easier it is to overwork my muscles. I still try to act like I'm 30 but my body soon reminds me I'm over 50. :)

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

Put them in the round file. I have some flash drives for bootable media, but they are 16gb. They've only been written to once or twice, but one of them stays in its slot, and it's been read perhaps a hundred times. The only reason I have them is they are faster than the CD/DVD. And they're convenient.

Reply to
Vic Smith

SWMBO is *really* obsessive about tracking expenses. She logs all of them in a database she built so she knows what each credit card bill will be before it arrives. At least once a month, I'll get grilled over some "missing receipt": "Do you think you spent $37.23 at Home Depot on the 15th?"

This, of course, is code for: "What the hell did you buy for $37.23 at Home Depot and why didn't you give me the receipt??!"

We only use the one as a "backup" in our bug-out-bag (for our most recent financial data). Whatever you use for that purpose has to be easily updated, accessible from a variety of other computers and reasonably durable (as you won't be "babying it" if you need to "bug out")

I save small ones (512-8G) for bootable media. I.e., I have clonezilla on one (512MB being *roughly* the size of a CD-ROM so any "live CD" is a potential candidate to move onto a small thumb drive). I also have little "utility CD's" (that are, in fact "utility thumb drives") for things like resetting Windows passwords, etc. I have OPHCRACK installed on some of the larger ones (with the "enlarged" rainbow tables).

None of these are uses that would justify *buying* a thumb drive; a CD/DVD is more economical. But, the thumb drives are more resilient than optical media and, "no longer of use, anyway..."

I typically use my camera to document some *thing*. Then, quickly pull those images off the camera (memory card). So, any card that I use is usually blank -- and more than capable of holding the next batch of photos "documenting something".

SWMBO is more the typical photographer -- taking countless photos until the card fills; then, spending hours trying to sort the photos as she moves them onto her photo archive.

(the idea of yet another "organizing chore" is enough to turn me off to that! Hard enough keeping my desk, bookshelves, desktop, etc. organized without adding to the list)

Music is "unfortunate". I could live with the original CD's -- but they are a hassle to access (and must be played on a CD drive). Hence, the appeal of the disc storage and the effort to rip them. But, I also need them in a different/special format for my "network speakers" as decoding MP3's each time you want to listen to something is a silly waste of resources (time/memory). And, would also require

*encoding* all audio into that format in order to have the speakers capable of reproducing the audio (e.g., VoIP, movie "simulcasts", front door intercom, etc.).

Yes. I was mentioning it as I have used many different media types over the years (including 9T tape; having a spare transport was a HUGE space consideration! :> ). It's not enough for me to have *a* way of accessing the media but also need a BACKUP way as well! (e.g., my MO drives)

SWMBO is not fond of beef (understatement). So, any that comes into the house is intended for my own consumption. E.g., 6 lbs of ground beef yesterday will go into the batch of sauce I'm making this afternoon (with some made into burger patties to be frozen).

I'm excited in that I've managed to add beef w/broccoli to our weekly menu. And, I make a big enough batch that I get an extra meal out of it! (on the agenda for tonight)

OTOH, I will counter with something like braised asparagus and linguine agli e olio (not fond of pasta w/o red sauce!) -- on the agenda for TOMORROW night (maybe *I* can eat a hamburg?? :> )

I've never been a lark. When I was younger, I was involved in a research project that tried to monitor biological rhythms (in this case, circadian rhythms). For months (and eventually, years), I carried a doctor's sachel around with sphygmomanometer (blood pressure), peak expiratory flow meter (lung capacity), dynamometer (hand strength), thermometer (body temperature), etc. I would sit down periodically and run through a battery of tests on myself: the above plus things like how quickly I could add (and record) 100 pairs of single digit numbers, digital dexterity, etc.

In my initial exposure, this went on for several months before the data was "processed" -- trying to fit a curve to the data. From the *data*, the result came back suggesting my *body* was operating at its best in the evening -- specifically, around 6P. Despite the fact that it was being forced onto the normal schedule of a child. This coincided with what I knew personally to be true of my own physiology.

Of course, its possible that this has changed over the decades. But, I still "feel" like I am more productive later in the day. E.g., I won't be hungry for many hours after rising. And, left to my own devices, end up inverting my sleep-wake cycle (e.g., to bed at 6:30 this morning, up at 10:00 -- did I mention lack of sleep? :> )

Don't let your knuckles drag on the ground!! :)

I guess I've been relatively lucky. My arms will get tired from too much lifting. But, I can't recall ever having a sore back -- despite all the digging I've done over the years.

Yeah, I keep wondering who that old man is that I keep meeting in the bathroom! He never gives me any PRIVACY...

Reply to
Don Y

She needs a job. I'm far too busy to spend time on stuff like that. Forty hours a week at work, then weekends helping with home maintenance and improvement leaves me little time for bothering my husband about such things.

Of course, I generally use or see him using whatever the $37.23 bought at Home Depot.

Cindy Hamilton

Reply to
Cindy Hamilton

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