Well pressurize tank questions?

[maradcliff]

I got a well pump and old fashioned (non-bladder) tank. The tank is in a 15' deep pit that used to be a cistern. Every few months the tank gets waterlogged, and I got to go down in the pit to drain the tank. The top of the old cistern is barely large enough to get myself in there, and the ladder has to be nearly straight up and down because there isnt enough room to put it at an angle. This is one of those chores that gets real aggravating after awhile.

I have dedided that it's time to do something about this. I looked at a bladder type tank yesterday. They are costly, but if it solves this problem, it's worth it. However, I noticed that those tanks only have one pipe connection on the bottom, so I'd have to replumb the whole thing. (My present tank has one INPUT pipe, one OUTPUT pipe, and another 1/4" pipe hole where my pressure switch and guage are connected. I assume I'd have to use a bunch of pipe fittings to hook the INPUT, OUTPUT and PRES SWITCH all on the pipe assembly, so the pipe becomes the connecting point for everything, instead of the tank.

All of this looks like work, but I can do it.

However, I have never understood how to pressurize one of those tanks. Yes, I know I take my air hose and apply pressure on the little tit on the top. However, to what pressure? The HIGH pressure, or the LOW pressure that my pressure switch is set for. For example, I normally run 35 Low / 55 High for water pressure. Then, so I just pressurize it before I turn on the water, and use a tire guage to get the correct pressure? I could use a little advice on this!!!!

Now, I do have another idea, that would not only save money, but would also save a lot of trouble changing all of this. My present tank is fine, in the sense that it dont leak or anything. Draining it would not be a big problem, if I did not have to crawl down in that hole. I already tried to attach a long shaft to the valve so I could open the valve without climbing down there. However, because of the angle and stuff in the way, not to mention how to connect to the handle, this is not feasible.

But, I got another idea. If I could find a low voltage electrical ON/OFF valve, I could just rig up a switch to open the valve, and shut it after draining the tank, and do the whole thing from a control box outside. I know they make such things for hot water heating equipment, cars, and other stuff. Does anyone have a suggestion where I could easily and cheaply find something like this. Then, all I'd have to do is replace the manual valve with this electrical one, run some low voltage wiring out of the pit and rig a SPDT switch for the ON and OFF. This pit is only a couple feet from my garage, so I could run the LowV wiring thru a piece of PVC (for protection), into the garage, install a 24V (or whatever) transformer in there, and my switch. This seems like the easiest and cheapest way to solve this problem, and I could easily drain the tank monthly, instead of waiting till it gets real waterlogged.

PS. This tank is one of those old tall 40 gallon galvanized ones, and the pump is a submercible, so there is not way to use any of those "Air Volume Control" (I think that's the correct name), like they had on the old surface mounted pumps.

PS2. To avoid the next question I know someone will ask ....... When I drain the tank in the pit, I have a sump pump permanently installed down there, and simply plug it in to drain the water from the bottom of the pit. I also have to do that after very heavy rains. My house does not have a basement, so this is the only place to put the tank to avoid winter freezing.

Mark

[Doug Miller]

In article , [e-mail] wrote: [snip]

You pressurize a bladder tank exactly the same way you pressurize a bladderless tank: precharge to about 2 PSI below the cut-in setting. In your case, to 33 PSI. The only difference is that you can pressurize a bladder tank _before_ installing it.

No, you pressurize it before you turn on the water, and then you leave it alone, same as with a bladderless tank.

[snip]

Or you could replace your existing tank with a bladder tank, and not have to worry about it again, for years.

You could put the tank in an above-ground shed. With enough insulation in the walls and ceiling, you can adequately heat a small shed with a couple of hundred-watt light bulbs.

[David Martel]

marad,

It sounds as if your holding tank is very inconveniently located but its not leaking. So you can leave it in place and put a new bladder-type holding tank somewhere that is more convenient. A 40 gallon tank will easily fit in most crawl spaces. I think you inflate the bladder with the tank empty and the drain open to a couple of PSI below your low pressure cut-off. I get the impression that you have a farm so is the 40 gal. tank going to be big enough?

Dave M.

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As to why it keeps getting waterlogged - check with soap water for leaks at any fittings above the water line.

To drain it easier, attach a length of pipe to the output where you drain it. Run it up to the top where you can reach it easily and add a valve there. Or, you can just use a nearby water tap. Turn off the pump, pressurize the tank with air, open the valve until air comes out, close the valve, and re-pressurize the tank.

Bob

[maradcliff]

There is no means to pressurize these older tanks. Thats why they made them tall. It's simply a matter of emptying them so the air in the top part of the tank forms the air cushion. In other words, there are no air hose fittings on these tanks.

Yep, but all of that costs money, and money is tight at the moment...... The economy is very bad around here !!!!

Agreed, but then I got to build a shed, and also have to my already high winter electric bill. My normal average summer electric bill is $65 per month. Running livestock tank heaters in winter makes my average winter electric bill $220 per month, and has gone as high as $300 during the coldest months. I'm looking for the most cost effective method, and that means leaving the tank in the pit where it is now. Before I'd build a shed and mess with heat lamps, I'd buy a bladder tank. However, the more I think about it, I think my idea of the electric operated valve is the cheapest and simplest solution to this whole problem. It's just a matter of what to use for the valve. Spending a few minutes each month walking into the garage, shutting off the pump and flipping a switch to ON, waiting 15 minutes and flipping the switch ot OFF and turning the pump back on, does not sound like any major inconvenience. Going into that pit IS a major inconvenience !!!!

Thanks to all

Mark

[Playintennis5274]

if you wanna install a "an automatic type Drain system" , #1 buy a solenoid valve w/ 110v coil so you don't have to buy a seperate power supply (24v) #2 you only need a spst switch for the valve. Just run the hot from yourpwr directly to the valve and run the nuetral threw the spst sw.

[Doug Miller]

The explanation for that is simple enough: he said it's a bladderless tank. Eventually, the air all dissolves into the water. That's the whole purpose for having bladder tanks: to keep the air separate from the water.

[PrecisionMachinisT]

If your wanting *real* cheap--then maybe you already got an old washing machine or dishwasher valve and an old extension cord laying around.....

Probly better maybe ( for safety, as these run at a lower voltage ) to just buy an automatic sprinkler valve and wall transformer, these are ~ 10 bucks at home depot, and run off 24 vac.

[Terry]

Replace or do this:

Much less expensive.

[Playintennis5274]

he can buy a regular solenoid such as a Dema or Asco and run off a light switch annnnd doesn't have to buy a seperaye transformer to get 24v.

[maradcliff]

Thanks for the advice, but those are only for Jet Pumps (shallow well pumps). I have a submersible pump.

Mark