T&P relief valve - nowhere to drain?

[David]

Hopefully someone can offer some guidance on a problem I have with my water heater.

It would seem that the boneheads that built my house 7 years ago failed to put the hot water heater in a location where the T&P relief valve can safely dump water to a drain. The water heater is installed in a small closet, below grade, and was placed on top of carpeting, underlay, and then the concrete foundation. I didn't even realize that it was normal for the T&P relief valve to activate periodically - I thought it was in the event of a catastrophic failure, but I now know that's not the case.

I just noticed that the carpeting is completely soaked, and there's mold growing in the carpet. I'm pretty sure it's not leaking from anywhere, so I have to assume the T&P relief valve is doing its thing.

There's no drain anywhere near the heater. Is there another alternative to placing a bucket under the drain tube?

On a side note, I'm not quite sure why the T&P valve would be activating so much lately, unless it's because we've been using more hot water since the arrival of our first child. I don't think the moisture problem in the water heater closet has been going on for long. I've been checking the drain tube periodically, and it doesn't appear there's a slow leak or anything.

Any advice?

[<kjpro]

It&#39;s not to activate periodically, so what made you think otherwise?

Which would indicate a problem that needs to be corrected.

Have it checked out? There is a problem that needs to be addressed, before you end up with a bigger mess.

[hallerb]

T&P valve should NOT normally open, get that fixed immediately.

common causes high home watewr pressure, backflow preventer doing its job on main water line in, tank set too hot...

might be a leaking tank........ put bucket or pan under output of valve to get better idea of source of water

[Edwin Pawlowski]

About 98% of them are installed that way..

The water heater is installed

It is pretty much the case. You have a problem that needs fixing. Could be the valve itself going bad, chould be the temperature is running to high for some reason, like a bad thermostat, or the water pressure is higher than normal. .

Put a bucket under it to be sure that is where the water is coming from.

[Speedy Jim]

Normally, the T&P should never open.

The single most frequent cause of discharge is excessive pressure caused by thermal expansion. If you are on city water where pressure is very high and you have a PRV (regulator) , the expansion of water as the tank heats has nowhere to go. The pressure builds until the T&P valve opens.

The solution is relatively painless:

XT model expansion tank is added to the piping on the Cold inlet to the tank.

I&#39;ve just skimmed over this topic. There are a host of considerations regarding service pressure and PRV&#39;s that may need to be looked at.

As for where to drain the discharge, some jurisdictions will permit discharge to open air outside (pipe thru wall).

Jim

[HeyBub]

Replace the water heater. Seven years for a three-year device is pretty good.

Around here, water under the water heater indicates a leaking tank.

The T&P valve is to prevent an EXPLODING water heater, not for piddly excess drainage.

[David]

Thanks for all the quick advice, everyone. I was going by the manual for the heater (GH Wood Series Pro model JW525, which appears to have an 8-year warranty), which suggests that periodic opening of the T&P valve is normal.

Looks like I&#39;ll have to bring in a plumber no matter how you slice it. At least if it&#39;s the heater itself that&#39;s leaking, it seems to be still under warranty. I&#39;ve got a jug under the T&P valve just to see if anything happens between now and when I call in the plumber tomorrow.

It doesn&#39;t appear to be a thermostat that&#39;s gone (the water is 133.5 F, by a pretty accurate thermometer). It would&#39;ve been too easy if it were something that simple - I could&#39;ve handled that on my own (electronics technician).

The pressure could be a problem. I had a PEX joint start to leak about a year ago, and the plumber (who didn&#39;t have a pressure gauge) turned down the pressure regulator at the main shutoff (it was wide open). Perhaps it needs to be turned down even further.

[Speedy Jim]

You misunderstood. The pressure regulator *is* the problem. They contain a check valve which prevents the expansion pressure from dumping back to the city main. That&#39;s why the expansion tank is needed.

But do the bucket-under-the-relief test before doing anything.

Jim

[trader4]

Also, TPR valves do go bad and fail to seat properly. Before I call in a plumber, I&#39;d find out for sure where the water is coming from, which shouldn&#39;t be hard. It could be that you need an expansion tank as suggested. But it could also be a bad TPR which is available at home centers or plumbing supply and if you&#39;re at all capable, it&#39;s a quick and easy replacement for < $10.

As to where to try to route the water from TPR to, impossible to say here without seeing where it&#39;s located.

[Mark Lloyd]

The one in my house has a copper tube going up along the vent (for gas fumes) and draining on the roof, near the chimney.

[Bob M.]

It is not normal for it to do so by itself. It should be tested manually once or twice a year, and that is probably what the manual meant.

There is something wrong, and it needs attention now. When water heaters explode, they make quite a mess.

You can get such a meter at the local hardware store for $10. Normal is

50-80 psi.

[Toller]

Just don&#39;t call the plumber who adjusted the pressure regulator without having a pressure gauge. Amazing.

Pressure regulators are generally also backflow preventors; they stop all water from flowing back past it. When the water heater comes on it will cause the water to expand, which will increase the pressure in the system. It can get high enough to cause the T&P valve to go. That is what everyone is talking about. An expansion tank will absorb the extra volume and stop the pressure from going up.

I can only go by my own experience. I installed a pressure regulator to get my pressure down from 90psi to 55psi. I then let the water heater cool off, and turned it up high. I figured that was the worst case senerio. My pressure only went from 55 to 85. I tried it again and concluded I didn&#39;t need an expansion tank. I don&#39;t know why other people do. BTW, my pressure regulator will allow backflow, but that feature clogs up and can&#39;t be counted on.

[<kjpro]

Which is against code, if you live in an area where the outdoor temps fall below freezing. But, it&#39;s still not smart, unless there&#39;s a way for you to know whether it&#39;s dripping or not.

[<kjpro]

Unless, it&#39;s subject to freezing conditions.

[David]

Thanks once again for all the info, everyone.

Update: I&#39;ve cut/torn out as much carpet and underlay as I could from around the heater, and I should be able to &#39;tip&#39; the heater enough (with the assistance of a friend) tomorrow to get the remainder of the junk out from underneath it. The heater will then be sitting on the concrete foundation - which should make the tracking of water leaks somewhat easier.

After running a dishwasher load and washing machine load at the same time, it doesn&#39;t appear the T&P relief valve is letting go after all. There was nothing in the jug I placed below the drain tube.

So...now I&#39;m wondering just where the water may have came from. My wife (who is short on technical knowledge but pretty good in the common sense department) suggested the heavy rainstorm we had a few days ago might&#39;ve had something to do with it. Of course, the foundation is behind drywall...

I went so far as to remove the two access plates for the thermostats/ elements. No apparent signs of leakage, nor are there any signs of corrosion at all. The tank looks new.

I&#39;ve currently got a dehumidifier stuck in the closet where the water heater is. I&#39;ll let it dry out nicely, get the remainder of the carpet and underlay out of there tomorrow, and then play the waiting game to see if water reappears. We&#39;ve got a rain-free forecast for the next 5 days, so if anything appears near the water heater, it&#39;ll have to be coming from the tank.

I hate this crap. Give me a radar to fix anyday.

[Clark]

wrote in news:33e18$46dcccdd$9440c41e$ [e-mail]:

Freezing temps and seeing a drip really don&#39;t matter since no T&P drain should go up. If it does, water is in continuous contact with the relief mechanism which leads to premature failure. Freezing risk is also dangerous of course but corrosion is equally if not more dangerous. Certainly model code states that drains must be continuously lower than the T&P.

[<kjpro]

Yeah, so run them damn things outside in freezing weather... Idiot!

[Clark]

wrote in news:2f5cc$46dce122$9440c41e$10717 @STARBAND.NET:

My point stands whether you like it or not. Corrosion and valve failure are concerns whether or not there is a potential for freezing weather. Remember context.

[HeyBub]

Obviously you have no conception of the purpose of a temperature and pressure relief valve.

[HeyBub]

What on earth would freezing conditions have to do with 180-degree water?