T 1-11 Siding application

[Julie Bove]

We have a 400 foot building that we refer to as the back house. It has electrical, phone, heat and a fireplace. No plumbing. The idiots who owned this house before built it and much like everything else they did, they screwed this up as well. I think.

We just had a new roof put on that building and the house and are getting ready to have them painted. But the painter noticed several pieces of siding that were rotting on the back house. We knew of two but there were three more pieces.

Husband didn't like the price that the painter (he also does siding, windows, roofs, etc.) had quoted so decided to do this himself.

Well... Long story short, whoever built this building just slapped the siding up over the 2 x 4's which is likely why it is rotting. Daughter said she thought there should be Tyvek up underneath. My mom thought tar paper. I looked online and it said specifically for a shed which is basically what this is, to use house wrap. Not sure what house wrap is.

So my question is... How bad is it not to have anything underneath? And what (if anything) should be underneath? The building is mainly used for storage of seasonal items and we don't really have a lot of those. Also some lawn equipment but we have a gardener now so we don't use those things. We do have a garden shed on the side of the house so any of the smaller things are in there. Lawn mower won't fit though.

I would hate to have to pull all of the siding off and do this over. We don't even need a building this big. Husband had intended to put in a floor (floor currently is cement) and walls but gave up after putting a wee bit of insulation and wallboard around the fireplace. His friend had suggested putting in beadboard over some insulation so that it wouldn't have to be painted. But I can't see that happening now as we no longer have a way to haul stuff like that.

If we leave it like it is... Would this be a really bad thing? We've been here for almost 10 years now. I kept sweeping out dead worms by the fireplace and there were tons of spiders in there. I sprayed for those and no more. But I figured out how they were getting in. There was a hole rotted all the way through by the fireplace.

Oh and we are in WA state. I saw someone else here mention that this siding is sometimes used in the Northwest. My parent's house has it and it was built in 1962. House is still standing and their siding never rotted. I think husband helped in rotting two pieces of ours when he pulled off some gutter. Why? No clue. New gutter has since been installed but the damage already occurred. Painter said we might need to replace a couple of other sections of gutter but wasn't sure that was the cause of the damage.

[David Martel]

Julie,

Did the painter offer a guess as to the rot? Tyvek is a house wrap. It's not clear to me why you would use house wrap or insulation on a structure that is basically storage. You do not mention sheathing. Is the building sheathed with something? It's not just a bunch of

2x4s covered in siding, right?

Dave M.

[dadiOH]

Tyvec is house wrap.

Tyvec et al is to minimize air intrusion/flow...to make a house more air tight. It's presence or lack of same has nothing to do with siding or sheathing rotting. However, its presence may help keep the internal structure - the studs - from rotting by keeping water away from them.

I can think of no reason why you would need house wrap (or tar paper) on a shed/storage building.

at race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...

[Zaky Waky]

"dadiOH" wrote in news:logvo5$siv$ [e-mail]:

You must be dreaming on that asking price. No wonder it hasn't sold in three years.

[trader_4]

Seems you cited a reason, ie to keep any water that gets past the siding from rotting the studs. And if water gets inside the wall cavity, it's likely to remain there longer, possibly rotting the siding from the inside. With Tyvek, any that get in doesn't go far, it runs down and out.

[trader_4]

I would have put Tyvek, ie housewrap on it. In the past, tar paper was used for similar purpose. It forms a water barrier, so any water that gets past the siding doesn't go deep into the wall cavity. Any water that gets to the Tyvek, runs down it and out. When water gets deep inside, it can lead to rot, like you have.

The building is mainly used for

Impossible to say without knowing more. We don't know how badly rotted those sections are, what % of the total siding they are, if the studs behind it are rotting too, etc. And what's the alternative? To paint over rotting siding?

The usual procedure here is to pull one of the bad panels and see what's going on behind.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Just siding pieces hung on bare 2x4s? I never saw that done???? pro painter does just good painting work. Sounds like he is jack of all but master of none. I don't like trade person like that. Sounds like he's a handyman.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, And you bought the place? Screwed up place? Back house is screwed up? what else? Sounds like the structure is in unfinished stage from the original plan whatever it was. Maybe it meant to be a guest house when finished. My daughter's second house in the Rockies has a fully finished structure like that. Just like one bedroom apartment. When folks come visit, they stay there comfortably.

[dadiOH]

I know, way too low.

Haven't been trying, it has always been leased.

[Julie Bove]

I'm not really sure what sheathing is. It did look like it was just the 2 x

4s with siding over it.

[Julie Bove]

The painter didn't build the building. He is my neighbor. I trust his work. He has done work for us before.

[Julie Bove]

I see. I did look up sheathing. I don't know if that is there or not. We have a piece of it in the garage so they did use it somewhere. It is possible that my husband removed that along with the siding. Perhaps I just didn't see it.

[Julie Bove]

Thanks!

[Julie Bove]

It didn't look like the studs were rotting. The siding was all rotting at the very bottom. Two pieces I presumed because he had pulled off the section of gutter that was there. The building remained like that until he saw the rotted siding and then he put more gutter up.

[Julie Bove]

Everything about this place is screwed up. The guy who did the inspection on it did us no favors. He said things were fine when they weren't. Roof stapled on. Every time we had hard wind, shingles blew off. Plumbing problems galore. Something badly wrong in the kitchen but unless we open the wall up, we won't know what. Plumbers have said that either they dropped something in the pipe, jugging it up or it makes a sharp turn. Either way, the kitchen sink is very prone to clogs. I've been told not to use the garbage disposal at all.

Electrical all messed up. Not sure why. Neither the electrician nor Mr. Handyman could figure that out. But Mr. Handyman at least cut the power to one outlet and that keeps the GFI from tripping.

We also have standing water under the house.

[dadiOH]

If its like most sheds I've seen, there is no wall cavity; i.e., no inside covering. And I'm not so sure about the efficacy of Tyvek...

Three, four years ago I had occasion to remove a bunch of windows from a house where the builders were dummies. The windows had been put in so that the sill had no slope and did not extend beyond the siding. For this reason - and others - water poured into the wall whenever it rained. All was removed, repaired and rebuilt.

The house had been wrapped with Tyvek but - at least in the repaired areas - it had disintegrated.

[Mayayana]

I would agree with dadiOH. Tyvek is a wind barrier. It's irrelevant in your situation. If you don't generally heat the building then installing Tyvek would be a big job with no benefit. You need to replace the rotted T-111, which is cheap and easy to do. If necessary, deal with whatever might be causing the rot. If water gets in over the long term there will be rot. Tyvek won't stop that.

There's nothing wrong with T-111 over studs. I'm assuming you don't have insulation in the wall. Maybe the inside wall is wood paneling or some such? If you ever decided to upgrade the building you could use the T-111 as sheathing and put siding over it -- with or without putting Tyvek underneath. But Tyvek is only to stop drafts. It's not worth spending a lot of money on unless you use a lot of heat and you can wrap the whole building.

[micky]

People have been known to sue their home inspector, and those with a good case have won.

I don't know what all a home inspector is obligated to find, but surely some of these things.

[David Martel]

Julie.

It's common to frame a house with 2x4s. After the framing is up the framing is covered with plywood sheets on the outside and perhaps drywall on the inside. House wrap (or tar paper) is stapled to the sheathing to prevent drafts. Then siding is put on to protect the walls from rain' Without sheathing the house wrap will flap in the wind and quickly fail. Go to a few local building sites abd see if house are sheathed in your locale. I think you shed is really shoddy construction This has nothing to do with your rot problem, though. I'd urge you to figure out why there is rot and fix that. I'd not insulate or bead board this building.

Dave M.

[Steve Stone]

I have T1-11 as sheathing on my 10 year old back porch. I have replaced sections of T 1-11 for rot at the bottom of the panel where it meets the roof line of the house. The rot problem seems to be the result of my use of stain rather than latex paint for the first 6 years of the porch existence along with questionable flashing installation.

Steve