Where are you located? I guess you're in a pretty mild climate, as plaster on stone or clay around here would be akin to living in a refrigerator. Or you'd have to have the heating on all of the time, and live away from the exterior walls.
Well, that's easy enough then. Please post back after you've finished the ripout, and let us know how far those interior studs are out of alignment. I'm betting it'll be better than you think.
R
My question was really more about how come fireblocking/draftstopping doesn't seem to be an issue when ceilings are strapped. Code is quite clear on the requirement, so I'm not sure why it seems to be overlooked on the New England home improvement shows where strapping is common.
R
I've never heard of it being an issue other than at the wall-ceiling junction. If each joist bay is blocked at the ends, it really isn't a conduit to anywhere. And I have seen the TOH guys and Holmes both remark that fire blocking needed to be added in wall on a gut job, or fire rock extended to top-plate level, when a drop ceiling was being retrofitted. And drop ceilings of course are dirt-common in commercial remodels, even those of frame construction, as well as residential basements, and the joist bays are all open there.
You wanna see scary, poke around in the ceilings of the 80-110 year old (depending on wing) building where I work. Multiple generations of remodels, most done by low bidder. There are several originally-public spaces and corridors with multiple layers of ceiling, and visible hatchet marks on the old ceilings where they ran pipes, attached hanger wires, etc. Lotsa dead spaces and fire propagation paths. And the older ceilings are plaster over heavy-gauge mesh. Firemen won't be pulling those down with a hooked stick. Most of the building itself is probably damn near burn-proof (other than the wood framed/decked roofs, and some floored-over atriums, on the older parts), but the modern office furnishings (cubicle walls, carpet squares, chipboard desks, foam chairs, full file cabinets, etc) present plenty of burnable material. They did retrofit sprinklers to most of it, but if any space in that building gets heavily involved, the knockdown, cleanup, and rebuild will not be pretty or painless.
Ceiling was probably done on 24 inch centers. Run strips of .5 inch plywood across the ceiling joist on 16 inch centers and shim as required. Do the same to the walls. If you have some joist or studs that are really setting proud you may be able to dress them down with a belt sander.....other option is to replace. Just my $.02 and I may do it different if I were there.
Jimmie
It sounds like you're saying to use 1/2" plywood strips as strapping. Wouldn't that sag like a mofo?
R
Real plywood, no, if the strips were wide enough, like 2-3 inches. OSB crap, probably. I'd check the prices on strapping at the local yards before I did that. Ripping plywood into strips, table saw or skilsaw, is tiring work. I remember pushing a whole lotta 1x cedar through a table saw one summer for fence boards. Not hard, but tedious, and you gotta pay attention all the time when you are cutting.
1/2" plywood is not going to be stiff enough to keep a drywall ceiling from sagging over time. Might look fine when it's just finished, but sure as shooting you'll have a rippled ceiling before too long. With 16" OC joists and 16" OC strapping, there's ~4# per strip, and 24" OC joists =3D> ~6#/strip. Not a lot of load, but it's a constant load and there's no forgiveness in a ceiling. If the thing only sagged 3/16" to 1/4", you'd see the repeating pattern of ripples running along the ceiling. You wouldn't see them in all light conditions, but you would see them. R
I am on the U.S. East Coast -- New Jersey. The property does use a LOT of gas for heating in winter. I had attributed that in part to the fact that it is a large older home with old and drafty windows. The windows are all going to be replaced. But, now that you mention it, the stone/block walls with no insulation barrier (it has a stucco exterior on top of the stone/block) could also be causing a huge heat loss. I have given some thought to putting up new wood frame walls on the inside of the 3 exterior stone/block walls to accomodate wiring etc. And, if I did that I could insulate them. I would probably skip the stone/block partition wall between this property and the other twin home that is attached along that wall. I am still not sure whether I will do the wood frame walls, but the insualtion factor is another reason in favor of going ahead with that idea.
You may want to look into one of the insulated basement finishing systems. They provide unbroken insulation (wood or metal studs are thermal short-circuits), and wood against stone/masonry presents problems with future rot and mold growth. I would imagine that if you insulated your solid masonry exterior walls you'd cut your heating bill by a very large amount. You would also qualify for state and federal energy credits off of your taxes.
R
Thanks. If I decide to do the exterior walls, I will probably just build a new wood frame wall next to the masonry, keeping the studs about 1/4 inch away from the masonry, then insulate and drywall. That would also create an easy way to do the wiring on those walls.
Masonry walls are not waterproof. Any water vapor or water intrusion, from either side of the wall, will make those studs a lovely growth medium for mold and promote rot.
If you are set on the wood studs they should be treated and other steps should be taken to make your time, effort and money last as long as possible. Otherwise you'll be shooting yourself in the foot if you're going to be in the house for a long time, and if you won't be you'll be creating a problem for the next owner.
Always take care of the next guy. Half the time you are the next guy.
R
For ceilings, I just learned about another option called a "Chicago Grid"(?) on another forum. It's a metal frame system like a drop ceiling metal frame (only stronger), and the sheetrock gets screwed onto the framing from underneath, and then the seams are taped.
Here is a link to the company that makes the metal grid system:
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