Channel that fury.
Do you know any attorneys? It would be worth asking them how to handle the situation and what they'd charge to write a nasty letter to the doofus.
Have you talked to him about what he did? Does he act sorry, hang his head, and offer to fix it? What about his boss? Give them a chance to do the right thing, then have your attorney write that letter.
Doug wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Can't say anyone could disagree with you Doug on many of your building points.
Back a few years when people were wacky outbidding each other while the seller sat back and heard $cha-ching$ I probably would say the same. But that was then and it's gone - for now. Today is what it is.
I myself have a place where a truss web was cut by AC people somewhere along the line to put a return duct. I mean all they had to do was use a few more feet of duct to go around it. I assume to save a few bucks it was easier to whack the web. When I had the new AC system put in I had them properly route the new return duct.
There was like only a couple of sq inches of plate on each side on each end fastened into the wedged in end. All I had to do to put a new web piece in was cut that 1-2 square inch corner of the truss plate with a Roto_zip on ONE SIDE on each end and pop the cut ends out.
See:
Is what I've done satisfactory structurally? I'd say so but I really don't know. It's certainly better than the way it's been for the past 20 yrs or so. Is it legit? No. No PE statement. I'll just deal with it when I sell. Since there were no geometry changes, I used the same lumber and did not disturb any of the other connections, I assume if I don't get a signoff any further work will be minimal.
If it's raised as an issue in:
Sellers market: Tell them to pound sand. Too many eager buyers out there. Buyers market: Pay the damn engineer for paperwork and move on. Neutral market: Tell buyer we'll have a PE come in. If he says it's OK as is then you pay for it since you insisted on it. If he says it needs beefing up/alterations then I'll pay the fee and make the changes.
The market and my situation then will drive what I do/don't do.
"SteveBell" wrote in news:gbmosp$fo7$1 @registered.motzarella.org:
Attorney$ cost whether you are right or wrong. I bet he could use the system itself.
I'm betting to do anything to a truss you need a permit. Did they get a permit? No. What inspector would have signed off on that?! Call the city inspections dept. Ask if a permit is needed to cut a truss for some attic HVAC work. OK, done with inpsection dept.
WRITE, (I repeat, WRITE) the HVAC place. Send it certified with a return receipt request. Tell them you want copies of the permit and final inspection with specifics on cutting your trusses. If they say they did do it legit then you should be able to verify with permits/inspections dept records. If you found they lied about that then you write again, same terms, You want whatever it takes them to get you a PE statement signed off and stamped with a seal in 30 days. If you don't get it you will begin to resolve through the permits and inspections department. This will get their attention since an issue of this type would affect their business to get future permits (if they ever get them at all).
IF the OP paid by credit card that would be great. A second parallel attack on the hack. WRITE the credit card company IMMEDIATELY and dispute the charges. Hopefully OP has not paid those charges yet. Still may have recourse.
I think there's a lot the OP can do at this point without the courts with promising results at little or no cost except for his time. I'd say worth it. Between getting an PE to come out (field visit fee), drawing up approves doc, then contractors fee to repair, easily a grand. Pure guess and probably conservative. It could very well end up a legal issue anyway of course.
Bravo Edwin,
I've never had to use a home inspector in over 15 home closings. I've NEVER had a bank require it. That's a widely held myth.
The only inspection that one bank requried me to get, at the last moment, was a well water purity test.
Insurance companies do their own inspections, at their own expense, if they so choose.
Home inspectors have been the cause of blowing up more deals than they've helped, plus they miss much hidden damage (based on experiences of two of my friends who had filed lawsuits against home inspectors). Both lost their lawsuits since the home inspector's contracts has exclusion clauses stating that they were not responsbile for hidden damamges.
Both of these friends has inspection reports listing about 30 things that were wrong with each house. Most of the items listed were trivial if not invalid. Yet, big items were missed. The reports however, were VERY impressive to read....
Some routine things that licensed home inspectors, at least those in my area, never check are:
As mentioned above, well water purity in terms of bacterial and chemical contamination (a few check flow rates)
Current condition and estimated future life of septic systems.
Condition and likely life of sewer lines and water supply lines.
Termite, carpenter ant and powder post beetle infestations (unless the infestations are OBVIOUS).
Yet, all of the above are big ticket items that if defective will cost a homeowner more dollars than almost anything else.
In any event, a home purchase is probably the single most important purchase in someone's life. A buyer should take the time to educate themselves and not always depend on others. Educate yourself....educate yourself....educate yourself. That's my Mantra.
Doug
(snip)
Agreed, based on my limited experience, home inspections may be useful as a negotiating tool, but that is about it. Mine told me nothing I didn't already know, but I grew up in the business, no I'm not a real good sample. Someone who didn't have my background would have found the $350 dollar report impressive. The previous owners obviously did (only one round of counter-offers, to bring sale price down 12k), so it was still money well spent. But having said that- with each new project I undertake (ever so slowly), I find new problems that were not readily apparent. So far, nothing life-threatening, but it tends to dampen enthusiasm for starting the next project.
-- aem sends...
snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
ou insisted on it. If he
ons then I'll pay the fee
I wish I saw that picture you linked above before I strated to pull out those plates. I did not think of trimming those corners. Now I have half of them pulled out completely and half of them pulled out enough to get the lumber out but still attached to the joint. However it's so bent our of shape I am thinking I need to bite the bullet and get them all out and use plywood gussets when I repair them.
Thanks.
Well I have made calls to the place and now it's a phone game with them, "the manager will call me back..." and nothing.
I am not sure what I can do now realistically. I made a mistake of not writing this into the contract, and have since out of frustration and panic did some work myself to "fix" it so I am sure they will say they did something but I did something too...a mess basically.
Thanks.
OK, just an update on the situation.
I spoke to the tech and he said I will need to talk to the manager who is "travelling" this week...I think it will be a back and forth playing dumb - I may need to write them a letter.
However, the reality of the situation is, I need to fix this problem, as I don't know if another hurricane may hit south Florida some time in the next month while I sit on this, and that's why I tried to fix this last week after I saw what he did. I have to implement a remedy and worry about collection of that cost later.
Here are my issues.
(1) Since two truss members were cut, I have a total of 4 joints to deal with, and a total of 8 joint gussets. In my repair, I had to remove the existing piece of wood sticking out of it and I did it by prying, hammering, pulling - and I was able to pull out three pieces completely and the other five I bent, twisted, peeled back to let loose of the lumber and they are still there. Given the circumstances I think I have to pull them all out right? Hammering them back in place will do no good.
(2) I will need to talk to the structures people in my company to get some idea on the proper repair. Basically here is my truss originally:
This is what it looks like after he made the cut. The AC handler is under the crown and he cut two 2x3 to make room for it. He also hung the unit from the rafters so there is a bit more compression there.
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote: ...
Put a 2x6 on the underside of the rafters spanning the cut truss and insert the missing leg from the current joint and fasten to the new piece.
This will transfer some load to the adjacent but give a support for the cut truss to minimize any roof sag in the space between the two whole trusses.
Assuming you can get the new member by the hanger, put the sister as high up towards the roof peak as can and clear the upper corner of the duct.
Use plywood gussets w/ optional glue/adhesive in place of the destroyed metal plates.
--
Also, a crossover between the two sides to those scabs and a sizable plywood gusset there would aid rigidity up there at the crown...
--
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
IF they respond, you can bet once they see pulled plates they will say any gusset and 90% of lumber work needed is because of that. And that they could have rectified the problem without an engineer or extensive work in an hour. Maybe (big one) offer you a piss-ant couple of hundred bucks. Last one who touches anything "owns it" from then on whether it be your attic, a software program or a car motor. After viewing it (if they do), I doubt they would touch it at this point.
Hate to be so pessimistic but that is the reality from my Mr Nobody wanna- be world. Hopefully I am all wet with paranoia. I love to see someone respond to this and say Red Green is full of shit and here's a resolution be it a rectification or legal directive.
Are plywood gussets always cut on site or can they be purchased off the shelf?
I assume those galvanized tie plates from Home Depot with lots of nail holes are not rigid enough as a gusset?
Thanks,
You have taken a very bad situation and made it much worse by your well-intentioned repair efforts. I personally feel that your situation now is such that anything short of a professionally engineered solution is not worthwhile. Although there are probably lots of ways to make a satisfactory repair, any future inspections, insurance claims, or sales would likely fail without evidence of properly engineered evaluation and repair. The HVAC contractor has done major damage to a critical structural part of your home and fixing it is going to cost a lot of money. The only question is who is going to pay for it and the courts may have to decide that.
Don Young
MiamiCuse wrote: ...
I've never seen anything precut, no; but then again, I've never looked...
It depends on the application and which you're actually talking about. For the bottom where apparently OP (or is that also you?) tore the nailing plates up for some reason the similar ones should work ok, but I figure it's as easy/simple to simply cut some plywood scraps for the job.
At the top to tie the two sides together to replace the broken chord I'd go w/ as large a section as I could conveniently get into the space.
--
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y71g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
I doubt anyone will recommend pulling out what holds the trusses together. I wouldn't, even if I thought I knew what I was doing. No one has the whole picture from a NG posting.
I would guess not too much. Teeth back in same holes are much weaker. Teeth in next to other vacant holes is not the same as teeth in virgin holes properly spaced.
BTW, please don't try going to the Borg to get new connectors. Those are not truss connectors in any way. Probably called joiners, mending plates or something like that. The few truss connectors I've seen are stamped with their rating like "MT20".
In some state they will not sell truss plates to non professionals simply because they don't want hacks using them. They are designed to be put in with presses. And they do not want to be sued I'm sure is another reason.
Just cut a piece of plywood to cover the joints. Use construction adhesive and a bunch of long screws to hold it in place. It can be a simple rectangle. Use good wood screws, not drywall screws.
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:BegEk.1679$x%. snipped-for-privacy@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:
Yea, drywall screws are brittle since they are hardened. And those skinny ass necks (that are getting skinnier) don't help. Pretty soon they'll be nothing but a Phillips head pin
For applications where I want to make sure the screws don't snap I use the ones that are touted as won't break or strip. Floors, & decking I suppose they are geared for.
I was taken back by the fact that they are like 8.79 for a lb box. Then you look at drywall screws and they are just about $6. Don't know of any places around here that sell drywalls in bulk and you can just scoop a lb for 2/3 to 1/2 the cost of Borg bastards.
Can I think say you're full of shit even if I agree with you? ;)
I think it's even a darker picture than you're painting. The OP now has modified the structure of his house (with help) without going through engineering and permitting. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a hurricane does blow through and there is damage to the roof the insurance company would not pay out.
R
He can hope for total destruction so the modification won't be found :)
Red Green wrote: ...
...
Well, I'll step up...you're fos :)
While it would have been better the HVAC supplier got a fitting air handler or made a modification rather than the cut, aiu the description only two widely separated trusses were cut.
In all likelihood it could be left as is and never be a problem, but the modification noted below to add a header across the adjacent trusses and replacing the cut chord will work just fine.
I'm also not in the camp of the other "sky is falling" posters on some dire consequence of insurance or other issues at a future sale time, etc., ...
It's great drama, but not much more than that...
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