OT: "Mixed up the brake and accelerator"?!?

[Commander Kinsey]

How the f*ck can anyone "mix up the brake and accelerator"? They're in the same place on every single f****ng car in the entire world!

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

Last week a friend of mine had a 90 year old driver reverse at speed into his fence and hedge, and it had to be lifted out. Apparently the person put it into reverse, by accident. Brian

[Commander Kinsey]

I can understand that, 1st and reverse are close together on a manual, and you can forget which you've already put it in if distracted. And in an auto, they're the wrong way round - forward gear is further back then reverse on the lever.

But the brake and accelerator I can't understand mixing up, faster on the right, slower on the left, on every single car ever made. Please don't someone say "Model T Ford" or "De Dion-Bouton", I wasn't going back that far!

[Terry Coombs]

  Well , the old bastard that rammed me from behind at a stop light in 2004 mixed 'em up but good . I was on my 1988 Sportster fixin' to make a right turn when he hit me , he panicked and put the throttle to the floor instead of hitting the brakes . Still had it floored when I picked myself up out of the middle of the street (flew over 25 feet and landed on my ass) and walked over to where he was high centered on the remains of my bike . I told him to take his foot off the gas , he gave me a confused look and said "My brakes didn't work , they didn't work." I had to scream at him before he realized what was happening . Then his insurance company (Allstate , may they all rot in hell) f***ed me over on the settlement . I live with chronic lower back pain now , they figgered my pain for the rest of my life was worth about 9 thousand bucks and replacement cost for the bike . Good hands my dyin' ass .

[Commander Kinsey]

I seem to hear about this more in America for some reason. Yet your pedals are the same as ours in the UK. Sure, you have more autos, but those two pedals remain in the same place, actually with a larger brake pedal.

Do Americans cars have the different level of pedal for each? In the UK, the brake is much higher (as in closer to you), so if you miss something slightly with your foot (as in your foot is halfway between the two pedals), you'll always hit the brake first.

I would have taken them or him to court. Back pain for a lifetime is worth a LOT more than that.

[Commander Kinsey]

What part of "Please don't someone say "Model T Ford" or "De Dion-Bouton", I wasn't going back that far!" didn't you understand?

[NY]

If you remove your right foot from the pedals (eg tuck it under your seat) and then bring it forward again, you *may* need to look which pedal (brake/accelerator) you are about to press, if you can't do it by muscle memory and feel (eg "can I feel the wheel arch of the car immediately to the right of my foot?").

I suppose the problem is that if someone is not very confident with controlling a car while manoeuvring (which begs the question "are they still capable of driving?") then if the car starts to go "out of control" (which may just need a slight reduction in power or a gentle touch on the brake) they may panic and instinctively press a pedal - *any* pedal - which may turn out to be the accelerator rather than brake.

I can understand people making that mistake. They are still utterly incompetent, but the mistake is still understandable, if not forgivable.

It's a matter of having the awareness of your surroundings and your car. When I'm reversing, I always bring the clutch up slowly, with minimum power, to feel which way the car is about to go (that rules out being in first rather than reverse), and then I start moving slowly and gradually apply power and let the clutch up further, alert for any reason that I may need to come off the power and apply the brake in an emergency (eg if a car or person suddenly comes into view even after I've checked). At low speed, it's actually quicker to pull the handbrake on than to move from the accelerator to footbrake (as long as I have released the accelerator and pressed the clutch in a manual).

Also I always waggle the gear lever from side to side (to prove to myself that it's in neutral) before starting the car (assuming it will start without the clutch pressed) or before releasing the clutch after I've stopped and as I'm about to turn the engine off.

Setting off smoothly, and without a sudden jerk, in an automatic is something I find harder to do than in a manual, probably because in a manual you have two ways of controlling the power: accelerator and clutch, so the first few yards of movement are controlled with a fixed accelerator and letting in the clutch, rather than *solely* by varying accelerator pressure as in an automatic and waiting for the torque converter to start transmitting power to the wheels. That's only a problem when inching into or out of a parking space, or lining up the car with a trailer's hitch, and needs very quick reactions to release the power and dab the brakes if you're about to go to far.

[Cindy Hamilton]

"Mix up the brake and accelerator" really means one of these:

"I was too drunk to drive." "I was too old to drive."

Cindy Hamilton

[Ed Pawlowski]

Every week you see on the news where someone drives into a store, often an older person that can't figure out that pedal thing.

As for Allstate, you should blame your lawyer. Or should have gotten one at that point.

[Steve Walker]

No they are not. They may be in the same order, but in some smaller cars, the intrusion of the front wheel arch into the cabin means that they are all set towards the left. Someone driving one of those after a larger car would find their right foot naturally positioned over the accelerator instead of the brake when they sat in a normal position.

Anyway, mixing up the accelerator and brake is not about not knowing where they are, it is about simply having your foot out of position for that car; finding the car moving faster when you are trying to slow or stop it; and automatically pressing harder to stop it; with everything them happening so fast that you don't have chance to realise why and correct it.

SteveW

[Terry Coombs]

  They dragged it out for like 5 or 6 years , during which time I was involved in another bike wreck (gotta love them Memphis drivers) and a tail-ender in my pickup . They blamed my problems on the other stuff - didn't matter that the pain pre-dated either of those occurrences . I blame my poor excuse for an attorney as much as the insurance company . He actually waived his fees once the dust settled , knew damn well that he didn't represent me properly .

[Rod Speed]

Its surprisingly common actually.

But when some use the same foot for both, its no surprising that occasionally someone presses the wrong one at times.

It is mostly the ancients like that, presumably early dementia symptoms.

[Commander Kinsey]

Firstly, I never move my foot from the pedals, or perhaps just sit it directly behind (my side of) the accelerator. Secondly, if I do I can easily remember where it was. Try this. Take a book, read something part way down the page. Look away. Look back. I can return my sight to precisely the word I was at, can't everybody?

AFAIK all countries require you to successfully park a car in a few different ways, and do 3 point turns etc. to pass the test.

How odd. If anything makes me panic (like somebody's dog who ran in front of my car recently), I instinctively step on the brake and only the brake. My subconscious knows that in line with my right foot is power, and between my two feet is stop.

They shouldn't have passed their test. The emergency stop part of the test should have detected that psychological problem.

I don't do that on purpose, but I have on occasion been in the wrong gear in a car where they're very close together. The car only moves about 6 inches before I subconsciously stand on the clutch and brake to bring it to a halt.

I don't use the handbrake at all. It's far weaker than the footbrake, and the cable often stretches on older cars so it doesn't work at all. I can hillstart perfectly well using the footbrake. When I park I just put it in gear. If it's a very steep hill, I turn the wheel so it would roll into the kerb.

Why bother? I just start it with the clutch pressed. Usually I've parked the car and put it in 1st so it doesn't roll. So I have no desire to put it into neutral then back into 1st to move.

How odd. I've had three autos, one of which was very old (a 1988 3.5L V8 Range Rover) - all three were VERY smooth. Letting go of the brake even suddenly will make it very gradually ease up to about 5mph. Then pressing the accelerator is extremely smooth, you don't have to worry about gearchanges, even an unintentional sudden jolt of the accelerator is absorbed by the torque convertor. Although there was something I particularly liked about that car - no safety mechanisms to protect the gearbox. I could put it into N, floor it and rev to the red line, then engage D. All 4 wheels would spin quite professionally and the car would shoot forwards at a speed a 2 tonne vehicle should not.

[Commander Kinsey]

I object to that comment, having successfully driven home 40 miles after 8 pints.

[Commander Kinsey]

It doesn't happen every week in the UK. Even though I'm in the UK, I see more Americans doing it on our news than our own people. Either you lot are stupider, or your driving tests suck. For some reason I get told that it's because they use autos over there, how can that be harder when you have LESS pedals?

I thought all Americans used lawyers every week.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I could accept your reasoning if the error occurred the first time driving a car. Most happen with the same car the driver has used for years. Dementia matters.

Remember the Audi problems? Pedal were close in height, IIRC.

[Commander Kinsey]

I've driven cars of all sizes and never had that problem. Unless you're wearing steel toe capped boots, you can feel if your foot is on the pedal correctly.

No car has the accelerator so far over it's where you expect the brake to be.

Who would be monumentally stupid enough to do that? You do x, it causes the opposite of what you expect, so er.... lets do more of the wrong thing? My god man....

Your subconscious should react very fast, if not, surrender your license.

[Commander Kinsey]

Is there not a way to reopen a case citing your lawyer was shit?

[Commander Kinsey]

Most use the same foot for both. But you should be aware of where your foot is. In fact with me it goes as far as the position overriding what foot or hand it is. If I put my left hand to my right, and my right hand to my left, then ask someone to touch one hand while my eyes are closed, I feel the touch in the position I know that hand is in, but I can forget which hand it is.

[Commander Kinsey]

Most cars have:

R135 246

If it's a proportional spaced font you're using 2 is below 1, 4 is below 3, 6 (if fitted) is below 5. So to get 1st you push left and up. For reverse you push a bit further left and pull a safety lever on the stick. They're pretty close.

There's something called a dog leg gearbox which is apparently very bad for mixing them up if you're used to a normal one, as R is where 1 should be:

Their standard arrangement on that page looks odd, I've never seen R near 5, is that what you have? Strikes me as damn dangerous for the gearbox if you can get to R at high speed. Also takes longer when doing parking or 3 point turns when you want to swap between 1 and R.