Paver form

Jim, you would have to understand my wife. She knows how to do very little, but knows how to do everything so well that she can tell me or you exactly how to do it, and how easy it is.

When she saw this cutesy little paver form, she just had to have it. Make that I just had to have it.

So, I come here to ask questions, much like I'd like to ask a couple of basic questions before setting off for a few months in Antarctica. It's just common sense.

I can see that I will in no way be using this thing to do two square feet at a time, taking at least ten minutes per two square feet. That's 5,000 minutes, or 83 hours, and that doesn't include bathroom breaks, water breaks, or just passing out.

Then there is buying and moving 500 80# bags, then hoisting each one into the mixer. It says it takes one 80# bag per two square foot form. And at about $3.75 per bag, that's $1,875. That little $18 form is getting expensive.

So, after serious consideration, I have decided to take it back to Ace, and trade it for some fishing gear. A guy can never have too much fishing gear.

I'm not sure what we will end up doing with the yard area. It is above a leachfield, so cannot block it off too much.

I thank you all for your input. It has helped me to reach a reasonable (and explainable) conclusion. When I present this to my wife, it will be much easier, especially when I explain that it will take her help to do this project, and the 83 hours, and how easy it is to break those expensive fingernail jobs.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B
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I have a large tile saw and a mathematical mind. I would thoroughly enjoy making a showplace mosaic walkway in the front of my house out of pavers, and as you say, an hour here, a day there, etc. Once you get the base down, the rest flows pretty easy.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

If you put a price approaching nothing on your time, then your plan starts to make sense. I invented re-inventing the wheel and perfected the messy art of pissing into the wind, but I'd still be given pause for your forms project. Pick your battles.

I'm with Jim on this one. If you advertise around - Craigslist, calling some paving contractors, etc. - and tell them you will remove the pavers at no charge, you'll get them for almost free (gas, time). You'll come out ahead on cost and time. The only issue is whether you like the proffered pavers or not. As your existing plan will take you a long time, I'd think spending a bit of time locating a suitable free source wouldn't be a big issue.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

"Home Guy" wrote

Issue, issue, issue. It's over a leachfield, so has to have some breathability.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

Ah, *NOW* I understand. :)

I long ago stopped asking my wife's opinion - or listening to her wants - about construction things. I think it was when I was getting set to make a bunch of passage doors for our house and she wanted me to make one "so I can see how it looks". Yeah. Right.

Reply to
dadiOH

Just to clarify, your form has a volume of .29 cubic feet - if it is (as you say) 2 sq feet in area and 1.75 inches high. That much concrete would weigh 42 lbs. It would take even less in your case, considering voids built into the form to give internal separation between the blocks.

An 80 lb bag of premix concrete would therefore easily do 2 of your forms - not one.

You would therefore need 200 to 250 bags, not 500.

You should look into the cost of pigment because that's not going to be cheap.

And this would be the kind of project where you buy a small electric mixer - not rent one. Once you buy it, you use it at the pace you want. Not under the gun to bring it back in a few hours or by 10 am the next day.

Reply to
Home Guy

"RicodJour" wrote

The only issue is whether you like the proffered pavers or not. As your existing plan will take you a long time, I'd think spending a bit of time locating a suitable free source wouldn't be a big issue.

R

Free is my second favorite word.

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

I have a vintage mixer that works beautifully. Not an issue. And 250 @

3.75 ($937.50) certainly does sound better than twice that. It's the labor that I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around. 80# sacks, 250 of them ........ and me having broken my back, a knee surgery, two shoulder surgeries, and chronic neck pain.

Wait, wait. I know the answer to this .......................

Steve

Reply to
Steve B

Most of us knew you knew the answer and were sneaking up on it in your own time.

I'm not sure of where the pavers are going and other constraints/ variables, but I'd be _sorely_ tempted to go with a poured slab and stain it with some acid stains. You can get some pretty nice looking stuff that way and it would be done with minimal fuss and muss.

You said ~1000SF, and with a 4" slab that's about a dozen yards of concrete. Not sure what the prices are like where you are, but that would probably be about the same cost as the bags of concrete mix alone.

Pick your battles. Rule number one in picking your battles is saving your labor for the skilled stuff that costs more, not the grunt work that's low paid. Rule number two is to save your body so you can do the skilled work.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

-snip-

We're shit-outa-luck then. I haven't understood *any* woman since KE & I quit being buddies in 1st grade.

That part I understand. My wife keeps away from that sort of thing-- but I get lots of weird cooking implements of varying degrees of uselessness. They mean well.

I think for your purposes, as you've said, the pavers are a better choice. But I'd do some more looking into putting them over a leach field. They aren't as porous as you might think. Look at permeable pavers & see if they'll work for you.

Jim

Reply to
Jim Elbrecht

Damn. I hate reading reading a reply post and realizing I missed something in the thread. A leaching field you say...? Okay, maybe a monolithic concrete slab wouldn't be the best thing over a leaching field.

I do like the permeable pavers, though. I've used Turfblock (brand name, but it seems to be a generically ubiquitous term) with good results. I used some earth-tone concrete stain to cover up the gray.

As Steve said he'd like to show off his talent by doing something interesting, I'd think the "pre-formed almost-talent" paver forms would be the death of that. Maybe a combination of pavers or stained concrete and Turfblock would be the ticket.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

If you used an actual news-reader client, instead of Google Grops, then you'd experience a more complete and satisfying usenet experience.

We call them septic fields around here.

What we don't know - is this for a patio area?

Or to park vehicles?

If the latter, then he might want to look into this:

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========= Grasspave porous pavement is a structure which provides incredible load bearing strength while protecting vegetation root systems from deadly compaction. High void spaces within the entire cross-section enable excellent root development, and storage capacity for rainfall from storm events. For example, a 13 inch cross-section (one inch Grasspave2 with sand and a 12 inch base course) can store 2.6 inches of water - 13 inches x approx. 20% void space). Stormwater is slowed in movement through and across Grasspave2 surfaces, which deposits suspended sediment and increases time to discharge. Suspended pollutants and moderate amounts of engine oils are consumed by active soil bacteria, which are aided by the system?s excellent oxygen exchange capacity.

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This seems appropriate for either a patio or driveway:

Gravel-Lok Natural Stone Porous Driveway

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Seems to use some sort of bonding agent flowed over compacted aggregate material of your choice to create a solidified block or layer that is completely permeable:

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This is what it looks like when it's torn apart:

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Product brochure:

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One thing is clear: There are a whole lot of choices available today when it comes to outdoor paving / parking / walking surfaces. To what extent they can be installed by the typical high-performance home handiman is an open question.

Reply to
Home Guy

Found this on the web:

=============== CELL-TEK GEOSYNTHETICS, LLC

Technical Data: Gravel-Lok Hydrophobic Polyurethane System

Description: Gravel-Lok is a moderate viscosity, single component, moisture curing liquid designed to stabilize aggregates for foot traffic and light vehicular traffic. It is ADA compliant for wheelchair access.

Application: Pour or pump onto stones to be stabilized. Do not spray (atomize). Allow 24 hours to cure. If rain is expected, the area should be covered with a plastic tarp. Application is not suggested if the temperature falls below 50°F or rises above 90°F. Coverage rates will vary with soil conditions. Typical coverage is 15 ? 20 square feet per gallon. ================

Basically what we have here is a rigid hydrophobic polyurethane liquid that cures when exposed to air (ie - water vapor). There are many polyurethanes that do this (PL-Premium construction adhesive is one example).

I would imaging that the average high-performance home handiman could obtain a similar material from a construction supply shop that may not be marketed exactly for the same purpose, such as this:

============== DURAL MUD LOCK Hydrophobic Polyurethane Soil Stabilizer

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Or for the limey's around here:

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EL151SB/NC Aggregate Bonding Resin is a clear polyurethane resin specifically formulated for use as an aggregate- bonding material for driveways and paths. The resin is mixed with aggregate particles and spread into place where it sets to a durable, flexible surface. ===========

What could be easier?

Buy a load of small stone. Have it delivered to your home (most places that sell decorative or landscaping products will do this). Maybe a few different types or colors. Several cubic yards of material. Small stone, pea-gravel, etc.

Prepare the area where you want to form your hard-surface pad. Set some dividers into it (straight, curved, etc) if you want to form patterns in the finished surface. Spread the stone over the area, compact and smooth it so it's flat.

Buy one (or more) 5-gallon pails of polyurethane resin, spread over the stone using a large watering can (or devise your own pouring system) and wait a day or two and it's ready to use.

I really don't think there's any need to go to elaborate lengths to prepare the sub-surface if you're not going to be driving any vehicles over this area.

Reply to
Home Guy

Duh - is the final surface going to be a glossy, flat resin? Through which one can see the pebbles? A little confused...

HB

Reply to
Higgs Boson

Higgs Boson used improper usenet posting style by full-quoting:

Follow those links.

Plenty of pictures and you-tube videos showing what the end result looks like.

Reply to
Home Guy

No piece of software will make up for someone being inattentive. I've used various newsreaders over the years, but they're static, not portable like Google Groups. I can post from my phone or an internet cafe when I travel, and I have very few issues with it. Perhaps your advice should remain in the field of home improvement?

Ummm...okay.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

One of my friends did it as a base for his spa, probably 100 sq ft. Over the next couple of years it covered about 400 sq ft. He is very used to projects taking a long time.

Jimmie

Reply to
JIMMIE

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