OT - poison ivy

[Matt Morgan]

Do Bob, Norm, Steve, the plumber guy and the rest of the cast end up getting infected?

Cause I'd love that.

WHy the hell do these "home repair" shows never air the episodes where every damn ting goes wrong every day?

Anyway, I gave up on this old house when at some point they went from fixing old houses with people on a liited budget, to restoring mansions for president clinton.

The show simply isn't realistic, and ther isn't anything it teaches.

If there is an episode where they show how to kill PI - that's probably the alltime best episode ever.

Especially if they all die in the process.

[Duane Bozarth]

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote: ....

Yeah, you might light the acetone... :)

[Duane Bozarth]

Yes, Roundup is not a systemic...

I was particularly sensitive to the word "selective" having watched the patently stupid Ortho commercial over and over and ... during the NCAA tournament. The one where the "ordinary" brand kills the grass as well as the dandelions as if the magic of 2,4-D (the active ingredient in Weed-B-Gone) was a new and wonderful invention...

[SJF]

Go to hardware store or garden supply store. Look for lawn weed killers. Weed-No-More is a common brand. Check the ingredients, generally shown on the front label. If you see "2,4-D" there, you have it. Usually, there will be some other compounds listed to broaden the product's effectiveness. It used to be that you could buy straight 2,4-D or 2,4,5-T solutions but I haven't seen this in stores in recent years. Perhaps in farm supply stores. Doubt you need it straight anyway.

The 2,4,5-T was, as I recall sold as brush killer, supposed to be more effective on the more resistant woody plants -- hence, possibly better for poison ivy. To find products likely to contain it, shop for "brush ler. --- SJF

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I use that 2-4-D to kill anything and including trees but I have not heard of

2-4-5-T . I can't see this stuff getting any better than the regular 2-4-D stuff. Do they sell this 2-4-5-T stuff where they sell 2-4-D stuff ?

TURTLE

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I have found to remove it and haul it off is the best to get rid of it. then spray 2-4-D on the Root that is left. i done this about 5 years ago and had to make a round out in the back area to see just now and there is 2 strings back there now.

Disclaimer here --- Don't do any of this below for I don't say to do this at all.

Now you said to just pull it up and get rid of it. Well I will tell you something about poison oak and ivy stuff to make this stuff have no effect on you at all for life. The Old Timers would take all their kids and give them 3 red berrys from the Poison oak 1 day and then 3 red berrys the second day, and then 3 red berrys the 3 day. Then wait 10 days and you can take a bath is poison oak or ivy for life and have no effect on you at all. At the age of 14 I could just walk near it and I would break out head to toe. My Grand father give me the treatment at that time and i take Poison oak and ivy off condenser unit all summer and just use my bear hands and nothing else. I can not say why or how this works but my grandfather worked as a Log hauler and a steam engine Operator with flate cars in the early 1900's and poison ivy and oak was a big problem to get workers off work. They would do this and never have to deal with poison oak or ivy again. Just a thought here.

TURTLE

[Chris Lewis]

Right, by "selective" I specifically meant applying it only to the undesired foliage. But that's obviously poor word selection ;-)

Roundup has this characteristic where it inerts itself in contact with the dirt, so, provided you don't actually zap a desired plant, you won't get cross-over from a neighbor.

[Harry Everhart]

Where do I buy 2-4-D? I want some now. Harry

[Duane Bozarth]

Any Borq lawn will almost certainly carry Ortho or other homeowner brands/concentrations. Ag supply places will probably be cheaper and have wider range (although you may not be able to buy many w/o applicator license depending on state). 2,4,5-T is one of those that may well be restricted, I'm not sure. I've an ag applicator cert so don't which of the many old standbys that have more recently become restricted.

Obviously, pay attention to labels and wear appropriate gear (mainly gloves and glasses to protect from spills/splashes while mixing, although don't go spraying it around where you're misting yourself, either.... :) )

[Duane Bozarth]

Doug Miller wrote: ....

I knew at one time it was, but wasn't positive it 2,4,5-T was still on the unrestricted list.

[Doug Miller]

Very similar chemical, but more potent. Yes, sold in the same places - in fact, sometimes in the same product. Last time I checked, Ortho Weed-B-Gone was a blend of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[William W. Plummer]

The use of 2,4,5-T in the United States has been cancelled since 1985. Some or all applications may be classified by the USEPA as Restricted Use Pesticides.

See

[Bob S.]

Restricted

Note the following: "Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of two chemicals, known conventionally as 2,4,D and 2,4,5,T. The combined product was mixed with kerosene or diesel fuel and dispersed by aircraft, vehicle, and hand spraying. An estimated 19 million gallons of Agent Orange were used in South Vietnam during the war."

It was a great herbicide, but we all know how vets got physically screwed up by using it. IIRC, 2,4,5,T was the key "bad boy" in the mix and that is why it's use was restricted, then banned.

Years ago I had a neighbor who sprayed his yard for weeds with "a herbicide he brought back from Viet Nam." He didn't have a green anything in his yard for 5 years!

Bob S.

[Duane Bozarth]

Doug Miller wrote: .....

My understanding as well...

[Duane Bozarth]

"Bob S." wrote: ....

Wasn't 2,4-D or 2,4,5-T then. Both are broadleaf selective and they breakdown in the soil or water within 2-3 weeks at most. Found the following quickly for 2,4,5-T and my recollection is 2,4-D is similar in nature.

"Fate 2,4,5-T on the soil may be degraded chemically or biologically, volatilized, absorbed in the soil, or leached beyond the depth of plant roots. 2,4,5-T is moderately mobile in sandy and clay soils. Half-life on grass is 8-17 days, in soils 21-24 days. Normally, only small amounts enter water, where it does not persist as it is absorbed by clay or biota within a few days,. Esters of 2,4,5-T are usually hydrolysed within a few days. There is no significant bioaccumulation."

Extracted from

Rotterdam Convention - Operation of the Prior Informed Consent Procedure for Banned or Severely Restricted Chemicals

Decision Guidance Documents

2,4,5-T and its salts and esters

BTW, as an aside, the prime toxicological effect supporting the ban was listed as the dioxin contaminant as another poster noted.

[Duane Bozarth]

....

Only if you're going to be digging around in it...if it's dead it ain't coming after you. (That is, if it's not a gardening area, I'd not worry about digging it out after I had killed it).

[Bob S.]

conventionally

Some (i.e. the manfacturer) say the dioxin was an impurity. Other's say it is the 2,4,5,T itself, or at least a by-product of the manufacturing process.

"Army scientists found that by mixing 2,4-D and

2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T) and spraying it on plants, there would be an almost immediate negative effect on the foliage. What they didn't realize, or chose to ignore, was that **2,4,5-T contained dioxin,** a useless by-product of herbicide production. It would be twenty more years until concern was raised about dioxin, a chemical the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) would later call "one of the most perplexing and potentially dangerous" known to man."

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

Half-life

hydrolysed

Used in the correct strengths for residential application on grasses, the stated results are probably correct. But used in military strengths to obliterate whole jungles is another matter altogether.

Bob S.

[Doug Miller]

I thought the biggest problem with exposure to Agent Orange was the traces of dioxin present as an impurity.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

[Alan]

NEVER NEVER NEVER burn poison ivy. Great- you're not downwind. How about everyone else? Also, the oil can remain active for years- even decades.