For those of us who try to use "no ethanol" gas for our small motor engines
, we're being lied to and ripped off. At a visit to a small motor repair s
hop I was told that there is no such thing, it just has less than 10% ethan
ol. I researched and found that 5% or more is labeled "ethanol included" b
ut less than 5% doesn't have to be noted. So at the next stop at a gas stat
ion with a "no ethanol" pump I asked if it was true. The manager showed me
the invoice of his last gas delivery. It showed "4.97% alcohol" in the ga
s to the "no ethanol" tank. So the dealers interpretation of "no", and tha
t alcohol & ethanol are different, is a total farce!
On 03/21/2014 09:42 AM, email@example.com wrote:
When I first heard about it, it seemed like a great idea
but it's not.
For work, my van was rated E85 so I thought, what the heck and I filled
it up with E85. By the second tankful the thing ran terribly and stalled
a lot. I talked to the dealership and they told me that no matter what
the specs on my van say...do NOT use that E85 stuff.
The van did work OK on E20 but whatever the savings on fuel were negated
by worse MPG.
After that I just used "standard" gas which still has some ethanol in it.
When I found out how much energy is used to produce it I thought the
whole idea absurd.
Corn should be grown for eating and not for fuel.
On Friday, March 21, 2014 4:03:48 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
It can be a energy positive by creating ethanol from things other than corn, like grass, waste vegetable matter etc.
Years ago I had a bunch of trees trimmed and had them chipped. they were left in a big pile......
fermented creating alcohol. my knowledgable neighbor warned me to spread them out or they could catch on fire....
there are commercial operators trying to get this tech to work dependaby
another source is running coal fired power stations exhaust thru big tubes filled with water and algea, which grows great from the CO2 in the exhaust. This cuts CO2 emmisions by 1/2 and the algea is fermented into ethanol
The US has huge landfills. There are some countries that burn their wast
to produce energy rather than bury it. Yes, it could cause air pollution
but if it was filtered the way you mentioned the air could be kept
On Friday, March 21, 2014 3:03:48 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Loss comes to small motor equipment also. It ruins rubber hoses and soft me
tal. For example, I have a ATV that had a ruined carburetor because of eth
anol in the fuel. It could not be fixed because of the ruined metal around
the needle valve where the fuel flows into the carb. A new carb from the d
ealer is $260, all because of the ethanol. And I was by far not the 1st on
e to experience that problem.
On 3/21/2014 10:42 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
our small motor engines, we're being lied to and ripped
off. At a visit to a small motor repair shop I was
told that there is no such thing, it just has less
than 10% ethanol. I researched and found that 5%
or more is labeled "ethanol included" but less than
5% doesn't have to be noted. So at the next stop at
a gas station with a "no ethanol" pump I asked if it
was true. The manager showed me the invoice of his
last gas delivery. It showed "4.97% alcohol" in the
gas to the "no ethanol" tank. So the dealers
interpretation of "no", and that alcohol & ethanol
are different, is a total farce!
Wonder if there is some way for the commoner to
test? Take a quart, and see how many drops of
water before one settles to the bottom? Some
simple thing like that?
Water mix, and shows different cloudy level.
(Be nice if this works....)
to be noted. So at the next stop at a gas station with a "no ethanol" pump I asked if it was true. The manager showed me the invoice of his last gas delivery. It showed "4.97% alcohol" in the gas to the "no ethanol" tank. So the dealers interpretation of "no", and that alcohol & ethanol are different, is a total farce!
I rented a Suburban in South Dakota that was flex fuel.
I was getting a fairly dismal 16-17 MPG but tolerable on E-10.
For grins I tried a tank full of E-85. This truck had the current gas
mileage on the dash computer.
It was like someone flipped a switch when that E-85 worked its way up
to the injectors. The mileage dropped to 13-14 before I got 2 miles
down the road.
When I put another tank of E-10 in, the 16-17 was back.
My experience with E-10 is that as long as you buy it and burn it
right away, it works fine but make sure you do not leave any in the
tank if you are putting your equipment away for a couple months and do
not keep that can of gas laying around too long. Fortunately for me I
have a boat that we use all year long so I keep my gas moving. The
problem is small 2 stroke equipment. I try not to mix up any more gas
than I will be using right away and I dump the rest in the car, oil
I heard that during WWII the mustang fighters [P-51] were outfitted with
small spray of water droplets into the cylinders. The steam generated
extra boost and when activate, the pilot just 'took off' and left standing
anyone around. Two downsides were tended to blow the rings [well, duh!]
and if you didn't 'purge' your engine out afterward by running a decent
amount of time, the moisture vapor got deposited everywhere and 'rotted'
the engine out.
So, that means it's ok to use that alcohol fuel, but remember to purge
your engine with pure fuel before you shut it off.
uh, and just HOW do we do that? Hey, I'm the idea man. YOU tie the bell on
the cat's neck!
Water injection systems were pretty popular as a performance booster
in the 50s and 60s.
It works in 2 ways.
#1 the water mist cools the charge and gets more bang in each gulp
#2 the released steam increases the amount of gas produced in the
The trick is getting just the right amount in there. Too much will put
out the fire.
I never heard of anyone purging the system but if the water injector
was off for a few revolutions, the water would be gone.
I don't remember if they told you to turn off the injector before you
turned off the engine.
Note that the 707 and DC-8 (and military derivitives) used water injection
to increase jet engine thrust (and increased HC emissions). The B-52 would burn
5 tons of water (mixed with methanol) on takeoff with the old PW J-57's.
The problem is alcohol comes from sugar or starch that gets converted
That is why it makes such good food (lots of easy energy)
There is not a lot in grass, sticks or whatever. There are only a few
animals who have figured out how to turn that into fuel and it is not
an easy process for them. (Always a 2 stage process)
Fossil fuel;s will have to get very expensive to make cellulose cost
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:42:28 -0700 (PDT), email@example.com wrote:
Most of our cars here in Brazil are a gasoline/ethanol mix.
You can mix the fuels in the tank and the electronics takes care of
the timing etc. Ethanol is much cheaper than gasoline, if you live
near the distilleries , like I do. Gasoline is probably cheaper in the
big urban centers.
All our ethanol is from sugar cane. Maize (corn) and wood are
far too expensive to work with.
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
On 3/21/2014 10:42 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Don't feel bad. Michigan doesn't even require labels but does require
filling stations stay 10% or under. I originally thought they did and
thus, frequented the same stations assuming they contained no ethanol.
When I was told there wasn't a law requiring labels, I searched to
discover they were right. I then walked into one of my favorite filling
stations (who don't use labels) and asked how much ethanol is in their
tanks. The guy was honest and said 10%. I also learned all stations use
it now, therefore, there's nothing we can do, unless we use another
method of transportation which doesn't require fuel.
We have a waste to energy plant here but sorting the trash and
maintaining the scrubbers and such make it pretty expensive.
I think they actually burn the paper and plastic from the recycle
stream mostly but they get in trouble when they say it out loud.
It does make more sense than trucking it 1000 miles or more to a real
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