Profit was included in "overhead" at the 15-17%. Insurance companies
only get a 3-4% profit but don't cry for them, it is 4% of billions of
With all of that they are still far more efficient than a purely
government run system.
Don't throw up that "5% overhead" Medicare number. That ignores the
fact that the account receivables department is the IRS, not included
in the 5% number and that most of the accounting is still done by the
private insurers. Medicare just writes checks. They also have a fraud
rate several times higher than private insurers because they write the
check before the claim is verified. The FBI calls it "pay and chase".
Yep one of my all time favorite bits. I had a Dem Congresscritter
address a meeting I was attending try this bit. I asked him if he was
aware that the 5% was to run Center for Medicare Medicaid Services and
that by the time you included money paid the Fiscal Intermediaries to do
the actual heavy lifting most of that had gone away. He hemmed and hawed
and did not answer my question. Big surprise there.
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 02:02:32 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
mapractice amounts to 1.5% of all medical costs in the country. it's a
useful whipping boy for the right since trial lawyers are big
contributors to the dems, but there's little factual basis in it.
and the high cost of doctors, along with the high cost of medicine in
the US means the free market has failed, compared to socialized
medicine...it's been unable to meet demand.
other socialized medicine countries have healthcare as good as ours,
with 70% of the cost.
I wish i could find an old country doc whose office is at the front of
his home. I'll probably be called a socialist, but there was a day when
docs and dentists probably did not aspire to be millionaires. Medicine
is no longer a profession, it is simply a business. There is so s--- in
the system that people should howl and scream about, but all they can
think of is "Is that a Dem policy or a Rep policy". Ferinstance,
medical specialists make calls on nursing home patients, largely
Medicaid. Old folks need the care. Specialist needs an assistant
(non-professional) and both are employed by the same sub-contractor.
Both have company vehicles to drive. Both might drive to assignments in
other cities, with employees in those cities driving to the places where
the first pair reside.
I don't need marble hallways and decorator leather furniture to sit on
when I go to the doc. Last couple of visits to docs were rather
worthless, anyway...they got their office fee and not much else mattered.
Are you aware that the average salary or take home income for doctors
is just over $100k per year and that is only after having gone to
school for 20 years, several years as residents making almost nothing
while trying to pay for student loans in the $100's of thousands. Yet
you bitch about having to pay $75 for an office visit but don't utter
a single word about paying $150 to the local dealership to change your
battery in a car that costs more per year than you spend on
healthcare. Most auto repair shops have standard rates per hour of
$60 - $90 for work performed by a highschool dropout with minimums of
1 hour. If you don't pay, the dealer can put a mechanics lean on your
car and you are out of luck. If you don't pay your doctor, you may
get a collection notice but little else and you just go back again.
Do you have any idea of just how much Medicaid reimburses those
medical specialists for those visits? How about what Medicare pays?
Do you have a clue about how much time and paperwork is involved in
filing claims on either one or what additional expenses for the
various regulatory rules are involved for those who are willing to
accept either one? I really can't see why any doctor would continue
to accept Medicare and Medicaid except for the fact that they care
about their long term patients.
Your point being?
You are right, they should be walking instead. Why don't you
volunteer to drive them?
You don't seem to mind the shinny marble floors and expensive
furniture at the local car dealer though, guess we know where your
Congratulations, you are healthy and didn't have anything to complain
about except for being healthy...this time.
Agreed. Why the high costs? Doctor education is more expensive here
than elsewhere. Practicing being a Doctor is needlessly expensive with
all the form filling, repeatedly submitting claims that get denied
without valid reasons, etc. And last (in my litany), but ccertainly not
least, the American consumer would like the newest, "best" yet unproven
treatment possible. Compare blood pressure medications. Generally (that
means in many but not all cases), reducing sodium intake and using a
diuretic that may cost $9/month, plus weight loss would take care of 90%
of blood presure problems. However, I am taking the cheap
hydrochlorothiazide plus several much more expensive things, like cheese
and crackers, and sit too much.
yep, agreed. the free market at work. insurance companies pay more to
DENY claims than they do in PAYING them. their job is to make money
for their stockholders, NOT to provide medical care
. And last (in my litany), but ccertainly not
yep. we insist on test after test, with the latest gadgets...medical
treatments at end of life that do no good (and conservatives want to
continue, lest anyone be accused of 'death panels')
nuts. absolutely nuts
BULLSHIT! Even if you 1.5% were true it would represent a HUGE added
cost that based on "all medical costs in the country" which go well
beyond just doctors. I did work for a radiology group several years
back that consisted of 7 doctors. Their total malpractice insurance
bill came to over $2 million dollars per year and they had NEVER been
sued and found at fault. That malpractice insurance for that one
practice amounted to a 10% add on cost to every single procedure
performed. Don't try and bullshit everyone about the true cost of
malpractice insurance, every doctor and medical practice in this
country knows better.
Another bullshit lie.
and another lie, probably the biggest one of all. Guess you aren't
aware that almost every country with socialized medicine is in
desperate need of more government money to continue providing
services, even limited and rationed services or that most of those
same countries are developing a private network to provide services
that the socialized medicine is failing to provide.
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 12:18:24 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
gfretwell and his right wing friends ignore the fact insurance
companies INVEST their money. they do NOT sit on it.
they lost their asses in the last few years. so they run to the right
wing, complan that all those people who are injured every year are
draining the system! it has nothing to do with THEIR investments, you
see. they're INSURANCE COMPANIES and god knows, they'd NEVER hurt our
so the right wing makes the healthcare CONSUMER pay for the losses of
rich insurance companies
the right wing ALWAYS likes to bail out the rich. this is no exception
So tell me genius, what's the average profit margin for health insurance
companies? I doubt you know or even understand what a profit margin is.
No, I'm not a Republican, Republicans disgust me but Democrats are
special, they horrify me. I would hope that you would research the
subject for yourself and not fall for the emotional rhetoric from
Liberal, Left Wing, Socialist sources. Take what is said by Right Wing
extremists with the same skepticism as I do and look it up for yourself.
It's really easy, every time I hear a Republican or Democrat
open their mouth I know at least half of what they're saying is a lie
or exaggeration in one way or another. Politicians lie, it doesn't
matter which side they're on, they lie. I won't call you stupid because
I would assume you're as young and as liberal as I once was before I
grew up. I'm glad you're the way you are because I don't trust young
Conservatives, they set off my weasel detector. Years from now you'll
understand what I'm postulating. You have to read through a lot of male
bovine droppings but you will eventually get at the truth. Take a look:
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 20:02:17 -0600, The Daring Dufas
irrelevant question, isn't it? the REAL question is, what does the
AMERICAN CONSUMER pay for healthcare?
and the answer is 'more than anyone else'
so tell me, how does a profit margin benefit the US?
does it make us healthier?
does it make our economy more efficent?
OK i give up. give it your best shot.
what advantage is there in having a profit margin in healthcare?
I'm glad you're the way you are because I don't trust young
you havent offered ANY evidence....AT ALL...as to why the free market
gives us better healthcare
because it doesnt
By almost every objective standard, health care in America is superior to
that anywhere else.
The only statistic touted by the socialized medicine crowd is "life
expectancy." But that's a false metric. Many people die in the U.S. before
the health care system can get involved (i.e., automobile wrecks or gang
shootings). There are a huge number of people who either refuse treatment or
fail to follow the prescribed regimin, such as the morbidly obese or
A much better metric is, say, five year survival after a disease is
Breast cancer in women: US-63%, Europe-56%
Prostate cancer in men: US-66%, Europe-47%
Women, all cancers: US-61%, Canada-58%
Men, all cancers: US-57%, Canada-53%
Bowel cancer: US-65%, UK-52%
Heart failure: US-80.4%, Canada-78.6%
and so on...
We do pay more for health care than many other places, but that's because we
We don't send patients with congestive heart failure home with a bottle of
nitroglycerine pills, we undertake heroic measures for very premature babies
rather than letting them die as in France so they can be tabulated as
There are more MRI machines in my town than in all of Canada (there are ~220
in Canada). This means that if I blow out my knee today, I can get a scan no
later than tomorrow. In Canada, there is a significant wait time.
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