On Sunday, October 26, 2014 7:05:54 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Not only did he let that case in, he's continuing to allow unlimited
numbers from West Africa to come here. It's only a matter of time
until another, similar infected person arrives. You have 10,000+
people infected there now and it's doubling every month.
And don't forget that the CDC had it's team in Dallas. It was the
CDC that set the standards of what kind of protective gear was needed.
It was the CDC that's supposed to have the expertise in this area, not
some typical community hospital you could find anywhere. And the CDC
was right there, while that hospital treated Duncan. It's obvious what
went on and is *still* going on.
Right now, we have another experiment going on at Bellevue in NYC.
What geniuses decide to treat an Ebola patient in NYC? It's even
worse than Dallas. Those infected nursed in Dallas drove to work.
How many of the staff at Bellevue take the subway or bus to work?
So, who's to blame for that stupidity? Cuomo? Or the CDC that says
that's the peachy keen way to proceed? Also, think about what these
cases are doing to the hospitals. They've cleared out entire floors
for one patient. Regular patients are running away, killing their
business. If one nurse from Bellevue winds up contracting Ebola,
think of the damage to the businesses and people of NYC. You can
already kiss the bowling alley and restaurant there goodbye. How
many more do we need?
Make me Ebola czar. New plan. As soon as someone is confirmed to
have Ebola, isolate them, send a medical jet to transport them to
Emory or one of the other specialized hospitals with the skills and
experience to treat them. Safer for the hospital workers, safer for
the community, safer for the patient, because they are in the hands of
experienced staff, not someone seeing Ebola for the first time.
So the Governor of Texas is not interested in finding out why there were
three breaches of the standards at one of his world class lowest ranked
health care facilities?
So Texas had the same standards as the three/four other states that
have/had ebola patients and the fact that there were no breaches except
in Texas is in no way the fault of the Texas health care system?
You know, the same CDC that says, "don't
Just pointing out how well the vaunted regulatory environment espoused
by Governor Perry is what happens when you let conservatives run things
Especially if it's in Africa
so you lied when you said that Zmapp is made by genetically modifying
tobacco plants and growing them to produce. I guess maybe the pot
growers in Washington and Colorado will do it, not the tobacco farmers
in the South
On Saturday, October 25, 2014 11:40:32 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
It's not state standards that are the issue here.
Those other hospitals that the Americans from Africa were brought to
here specialize in treating and containing extremely contagious diseases.
Those patients didn't walk into the emergency room, the facilities were
chosen to be the best available for treating highly contagious, exotic
Now, Texas was just following the dopey CDC plan. Not only were they
following it and the CDC standards, but a CDC team was there almost from
day one. So, if that Texas hospital was doing anything wrong, it's on
the CDC. And it's not surprising the CDC doesn't know WTF they're doing,
it was the CDC that told the Dallas nurse that travelled to Ohio that is
was perfectly fine to get on an airplane, even though she felt like crap
and had a fever. Also, being a partisan hack, you wouldn't follow the
news, but if you did, you'd know that a national poll of nurses showed
that something like 80% said they had not be trained on Ebola, their
hospitals didn't have procedures in place, etc. But heh, keep trying to
pin it on Perry. Is he responsible for the guy who was taking the subway
and going bowling in NYC too? Good grief.
You want more? How about this. Instead of relying on every Tom, Dick,
and Harry hospital to treat Ebola patients, a rations national plan would
be to quickly isolate, then move Ebola patients to one of the hospitals
you cited, that is trained, equipped, and has experience. If we can fly
Ebola patients from Africa here, surely we could airlift a US Ebola case
to Emory, etc. One or two medical jets on standby and it's covered.
But, instead, now we're screwing around with another experiment in NYC
of all places.
Maybe someone should ask Obama's Ebola Czar about that, but we can't
No one has seen or heard of him since his appointment. The world wants
to know, where is Flounder? You know, the dopey, fat freshman from
Animal House, who's now Obama's Ebola Czar.
Sure. Go figure. Obama and you libs refuse to institute a common sense
ban on non-essential travel. One that all the polls show two thirds of
Americans want. So, we have infected Africans showing up here to hospitals
that are unprepared and have no experience handling Ebola. And it's all
I suppose it's Perry's fault that the CDC told that Dallas nurse to get
on a plan in Ohio, even though she felt like crap and had a fever?
No, anywhere, idiot. How many people need to die for your phony, BS,
political correctness and alleged racism? And for the record, the African
country's leaders, not us white boys, issued the emergency decrees on cremation.
Maybe they should issue a decree to stop folks over there from eating
monkeys and bats too. But, heh, they shouldn't impinge on anyone's
No, you're just stupid, as usual. So far, they have a tiny hot house
that grew the special, genetically modified plants. It's in no way
connected to the tobacco industry, nor is there any reason for a rational
person to think that it ever would be. But of course that excludes you.
But the governor of Texas is responsible for the (lowest ranked) health
care system in his state. You damn conservatives will always take credit
for a favorable outcome when you had nothing to do with it and you'll
blame everyone when the outcome is unfavorable when only your
fingerprints on it.
yes it means I was 4 percentiles higher than you
as opposed to Governor Perry over-steps when it suits him to push his
conservative agenda? you know, the one that created the worst health
care system in the United States
And who would this expert be? Someone with links to Zmapp?
On Saturday, October 25, 2014 11:45:51 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
You're such an imbecile. There are plenty of highly qualified people available with skills in healthcare, disease control, program management, etc to choose from. You just toss out nonsense, because there is no explanation for OBama
choosing a politcal hack, with none of the requisite experience. Even Democrats
are openly saying it was a huge mistake. It does show how Obama views the
whole thing. He doesn't see it as a medical emergency that concerns the
security of the USA. He views it as a political correctness event, where a
politcal hack spin doctor is required as czar. And BTW, where is the czar?
He missed the first big WH meeting on a Sat night, about 2 days after his
appointment. He just missed another one. Anyone seen or heard from him?
You want to make this a partisan issue. It's not. Look at what Andrew Cuomo,
Christie, and the IL gov all did. They instituted a mandatory quarantine on
anyone entering their states with contact with anyone who has Ebola. That
was in response to the CDC and the irreponsible doctor with Ebola, traveling around NYC. Two of the 3 are Democrats. Cuomo stated "The CDC procedures are
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 20:45:43 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
You are without a doubt an idiot. Every state governor is responsible
for the lowest ranked and highest ranked hospital or anything else
that is managed by the state.
You still haven't answered my question "I sure would like you to
explain how that was caused by the governor."
No breaches do far. The history of Ebola is filled with stories of
people who kept to the protocols and still got infected (as is HIV,
MRSA, flu, etc). You deal with people shit happens.
Also, I would suggest that the problems at Texas were largely related
to a learning curve with a new disease. This is is shown by the major
changes in protocols instituted by the CDC based on what was learned in
Finally, this is a VERY small sample to be making any kind of
indictments of any system.
Finally (this is really the final statement) this statement is at
least as dumb as the ones suggesting it is Obama's fault and another
indication of the idiocy involved at all levels when injecting rabid
political leanings into a scientific debate.
Yeah. Following the CDC protocols in place at the time does shed some
reason to be concerned about vaunted regulatory environment.. at least
at the federal level.
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
On Sunday, October 26, 2014 11:39:36 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
A major difference though is that with diseases like HIV, there were
only a handful of healthcare workers who were accidentally infected on
the job while the number of patients was many orders of magnitude greater.
And that in virtually all those cases, the worker knew how they got
infected, eg stuck themselves with a needle. In the case of Ebola,
somehow it's very easy for the healthcare workers to get infected and
most have no idea what they did wrong.
Ebola isn't Obama's fault. But the lack of a ban on non-essential travel
from West Africa, which would have prevented Duncan from ever entering here,
surely is. It's also his fault that the CDC is in chaos and he's the one
that just appointed the political hack as Ebola czar. He's been MIA for
two weeks now. It's being treated as a political correctness event,
requiring a spin doctor, not someone to coordinate a real national policy
Shit happens??!? Coming from an RN, that ain't a scientific
explanation. It is sad that closing borders and quarantining
health-care workers turned into political nonsense. The TV coverage
from Africa, for weeks, showed people dressed in hazmat suits, stepping
into buckets of bleach, etc. First clue that protocols weren't followed
was docs and nurse from Africa who caught Ebola.
One news program....AlJazeera?....yesterday had an interview with
someone expert, don't recall who, who said ONE VIRUS PARTICLE can spread
Ebola. THAT makes it possible to spread by "airborne" means; that gets
into semantics, because most take "airborne" to mean exhaling by one
person, inhaling by another. The nurses interviewed who described
caring for the first guy in texas were suited up, skin exposed, sweating
buckets, and cleaning up diarrhea and vomitus that hit the walls.
AMEN! All the vaunted pols and disease experts have apparently
forgotten what they have read about hospital acquired infections in the
US, which has been a huge problem for decades, and ICU's being the worst
place to be.
It is ignorant and very dangerous to make Ebola management a liberal vs
conservative issue. It is healthcare workers who are spreading it
around to some extent, and the latest doc who came home and promptly
went touring around public places is a good example of what not to do.
The nurse bellyaching about being in quarantine is a problem too. She's
got a lawyer; If professionals come back from Africa, they would show
wisdom by voluntary isolation, or with facilities over there for
observation until they clear.
Nowhere, yet, in all the discussion, have I heard mention of Ebola
becoming endemic in the US as it is in Africa.....but, flush
contaminated waste down many sewers, get some rats eating waste, carry
to other wild or domestic animals..........that is where it hides in
Africa, mainly bats, rats and monkeys.
On Monday, October 27, 2014 11:29:06 AM UTC-4, NorMinn wrote:
It's not true that we know for sure that it's because protocols were
not followed. The other possibility is that the specified protocols from
WHO, CDC are inadequate.
That's true of any viral disease. It's just that the more virus, the
higher the probability of getting infected. I think maybe what you really
mean here is that with Ebola the concentration of virus is much higher.
I heard that with HIV, there are like 1 mil particles in 1 ml of typical
fluids. With Ebola, it's 10bil.
THAT makes it possible to spread by "airborne" means; that gets
Exactly, I agree. It's been demonstrated that airborne droplets tranmit
Ebola from pigs to primates. Also a whole lab full of monkeys here
contracted Ebola in the 90s. They were in the same room, but separate
I mostly agree. I don't see elected Republicans running around blasting Obama
over his handling of it. They've been mostly quiet. And you have Christie,
joined by Cuomo and the Democrat governor of IL in imposing quarantines.
The policial part comes from Obama's refusal to institute a ban on non-essential
travel from West Africa. And his appointment of a political hack, with no
healthcare or scientific background, who is MIA, as his Ebola czar. I see
the first as an example of political correctness over the safety of Americans.
The second is an example of putting in a political, partisan spin doctor.
So, I don't see saying Obama is dead wrong on those two as partisan. And
even that, I haven't heard many elected Republicans saying a whole lot.
CY: It's my guess that most nurses know a bit
about microbes (well, the US trained ones). And
most of the nurses in USA wish to remain healthy
and alive. I'd guess that the nurses carefully
followed the protocols. Which suggests inadequate,
as you wrote.
CY: I keep wondering if "czar" is an office which is
mentioned in the US Constitution, and does the POTUS
have the Constitutional authority to appoint Czars?
Isn't that a Russian communist term, comrade?
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:12:02 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Our liar-in-chief appointed czars so he could bypass Congress knowing
many of his far left ideologues wouldn't have a snowball's chance in
hell getting approved. Your inclusion of the word "yet" is appropriate
You know, comrade, our Dear Leader has promised
that if we like our Constitution we can keep....
We've not had any signs of Soviet regime like
door to door forced searches like the ones in
Boston, or seizing money out of bank accounts.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
In one interview I heard, the statement was made that something like
half of the arrivals from Ebola problem areas are U.S. citizens who went
there to work on something-or-other and are returning home.... and that,
as U.S. citizens, they could not be denied re-entry.
Just tell the TSA they are Republicans.
I suspect there is some other agenda. When otherwise
intelligent people do stupid things, there is an
agenda. I don't have any insider information, but
that's my guess.
Actually I could have worded it better. The quoted question was asked
just higher in this thread and he still hasn't answered it. I know if
he ever does answer it will be bull shit but I still enjoy poking the
turd whit a stick. P-)
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