The mainstream press won't show such pictures because people might get
too angry about what happened. I'm of the opinion that those pictures
should be shown to the American people in order to make them angry and
whenever the anger subsides, show them again. I believe the video of the
people jumping out of windows during the fire at the World Trade Towers
September 11th 2001 should be shown along with what happened to
the people who jumped when they hit the ground and splattered. The
people need to get angry and stay that way so something will be done
about any country supporting the actions of those terrorists. Any Muslim
who even hints approval at what happened should be deported. o_O
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 02:45:44 -0500, The Daring Dufas
That's probably a good idea. What about the bombings that happen in
other places, like when be bombed Baghdad? How about the ones when we
use drones to blow up buildings that may house a terrorist but kill a
bunch of innocent kids? I get angry when I see 9/11 pictures but I
also get angry when my government does the killing. I got angry about
us dropping agent orange all over Vietnam and then complaining that
Syria used chemical weapons. Or us using "depleted" uranium.
I'm stubborn. I love my country and want to fix what's wrong, not just
pretend we don't do bad things. We often operate for the benefit of
the 1%, not the rest of us. Daring figures that anything the US does
is good. Not so. The answer is not to run away.
I don't see how anyone that "loves" their country can equate
terrorist bombings that deliberately target civilians with a
US drone attack on a house being used by Al-Qaeda
terrorists in Afghanistan or Pakistan. It's just beyond bizarre.
In the case of a drone strike on terrorists, what would you
do if you knew there were three Al-Qaeda leaders sleeping
in a house in Pakistan? And do you really think the owners
of the house don't know who's there with them? That they
aren't giving them support, harboring them? So, if they
happen to get taken out too, I doubt most of them are
really innocent civilians. And if they are, it's like some
civilians getting killed as a result of cops having to shoot
it out with some murders. Would you blame the cops?
We know what happens if we don't hit the house in
Pakistan. They go on their merry way to commit more
terrorst attacks, not only against the USA but all over
Truth is the intelligence work has been excellent. Ask
Abu Yahya al-Libi, Anwar al-Awlaki, Bin Laden and a long,
long list of similar high level Al-Qaeda scum.
And like the typical trouble making skunk, you don't use
a consistent set of rules. You say here that intelligence is "dodgy
then condemn the USA for going to war with Iraq based
on the best intelligence we had at the time. It was never
up to the USA or the UN to try to guess via intelligence what
WMDs Iraq had remaining or what they were doing. Per
the agreement to end their brutal, unprovoked invasion of
Kuwait, it was up to Iraq to cooperate with UN weapons
inspectors, to account for all their WMDs that we know
they had in the past and they continually refused to do so.
About the same time you're no longer the village idiot.
On Fri, 3 May 2013 10:38:31 -0700 (PDT), " email@example.com"
A reasonable question and the answer is that our goverment does
violent things around the world that are only in the interests of a
tiny but very wealthy and powerful, minority of the citizens. Not the
1% that Occupy talked of, that was a bit too general. Maybe the top
.01%, the ones that really control the big corporations, including
most news sources.
A true war hero, twice winner of the Medal of Honor, Major General
Smedly Butler, laid it on the table:
"I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military
service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the
Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second
Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of
my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall
Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil
interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the
National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping
of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall
Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua
for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I
brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests
in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way
Now check out what our military or intelligence services have done
around the world to make it safe for our major capitalists. Not just
recent history, but stretching way back. Haiti, Nicaragua, Iran, Iraq,
El Salvador, Greece, Chile, really, there isn't a single country where
we haven't put in power a government meant to further the interests of
our .01%. Iran, we put in the Shah, and kept him in, overtrowing a
democratically elected government that wanted to control its own oil.
The Shah killed all the reasonable opposition leaving only the
Is there any wonder that they hate us? Iraq, we gave them Saddam, and
when he got too uppity, we lied in order to go to war and destroy
their country. The Boston bombing is essentially what go on over there
all the time. Are their deaths less horrible than ours? Still, looks
like our .01% will get that oil.
Read William Blum's "Killing Hope" or "Rogue State" if you're curious
to read about what we've done around the world. Facts are facts. The
list of backstabbing and treachery is really astonishing.
That said, we do have real enemies. Muslim extremists are truly
insane, but not the vast majority of Muslims who simply want to live
their lives. Part of the problem is that our intervention in
Afghanistan under Saint Reagan created the Taliban and Bin Laden.
Those darlings in Chechnya, remember when they were freedom fighters
until they blew up a school? That came out of our actions.
We've done a lot of good around the world, but never unless there is a
profit for the .01%. And we've done a lot of bad things as well. Also
as long as there is a profit.
And the families of many innocent people killed in drone attacks
suffer just as much as we do. And many of those drone attacks are
The opinion of one guy, no matter how highly decorated, doesn't
mean much. Especially when it's clearly laced with all emotion and no
facts. He'd fit right in with the Occupy Wall Street crowd.
Oh, I see, so also the guy you dug up, is, well dug up.....
I thought we were talking about contemporary America, not
100 years ago.
None of those places is "safe for American capitalists".
Haiti for example, is and always has been a hell hole.
Ummm, the Shah had the religious nuts locked up! He had the
ayatollah kohmeini exiled, living in France. It was when he was
overthrown by those nuts, speared on by Jimmy "human rights" Carter,
that all the trouble began. They let the nuts the shah had locked
up out and now they run the country! Was the Shah corrupt? Sure?
also built Iran into a regional power, both economic and military.
He brought peace and stability to the region.
He took people who were ignorant and educated them, built schools,
built hospitals. He helped keep the Russians out of the middle
east. He had contemporary western values, as opposed to the
nuts that want to live in the 14th century and kill each other and us.
His secret police locked up those that opposed him but apparently
that is what it takes to keep Islamic nuts in line.
We gave them Saddam? Never heard that one before. Prior to
the 50s, Iraq was controlled by the UK. They had a revolution, they
wound up with a dictator of their own choosing. Ultimately Saddam
came to power. Kind of like what has happened over there for
centuries. It's happening again right now in Egypt, Libya, Syria....
They screw things up, make poor choices based on ignorance and
religion and it's the fault of the USA? If a canary died in a cave
in China you libs would blame it on the USA.
By their choice, not ours. When you have a bunch of ignorant
people, many illiterate, who believe their religion makes it OK,
then that's what you get.
>Are their deaths less horrible than ours?
Apparently so, because they choose to live that way. If the
vast majority didn't want to live that way, they have certainly
had major opportunities to change things, yet every time
they make the wrong choice.
Yes, dream on. That was the claim made by the libs, that we went
to war to take the Iraqi oil. Funny thing, last time I checked it
belongs to the Iraqi people. They are getting the revenue flow from
it. And note, that if we wanted to take the oil, we could have just
extracted at least enough of it to pay for the cost of their
We didn't. Funny thing that, no? We conquer continents and give
them back, ie Europe. We conquered Japan. Did we keep that?
Why, no, we spent what today would be trillions on rebuilding Europe
and Japan, we set up democracies, and we left them free. Why
can't you libs focus on that, the really, really big picture, instead
finding anything that ain't right in the world and blaming it on the
The mujahideen were already in existence in the 70s
before Reagan ever came to office. Carter was already providing them
aid. Not that there was anything wrong with that. They had a pro-
puppet govt and it was the Cold War. Yes, Reagan accelerated the
support to them and it was entirely appropriate at the time. No one
back then, including any of the libs, was running around saying "Oh,
one day they are gonna turn into total nut cases that will go around
blowing up the world. We made the mistake of believing these Muslims
had similar values to ours. Clearly they do not.
As for the Chechnyans, I suppose you think we're responsible
for what they just did in Boston. We let a family come here 10
years ago, gave them political asylum that they never deserved.
We gave them $100K+ in welfare, a scholarship to college.
The blew up the Boston Marathon. That is pretty clear evidence
that they are just a bunch of religious nuts and there is no
rationalization, no matter how hard you libs try, for what they do.
Only according to you because you view everything and anything
from an anti-American viewpoint. And that while all the while
to "love" your country. Yeah sure.....
That's the case in any war. Again, we take every measure to AVOID
civilian casualties. Our muslim enemies deliberately target
women and children. And then you bitch about the minority of drone
attacks that are mistakes and make excuses for the actions of
religious nuts hell bent on destruction. Go figure.
On Wed, 8 May 2013 07:14:30 -0700 (PDT), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
Yes, that was my point. This isn't something where we can say "oh we
had to do that because we were fighting Communism". Our external
interventions started way before that, and were solely meant to
install governments friendly to "US Interests". Of course, my
interest, and likely yours, didn't require that. The interest of the
big Capitalists did. General Butler was in a position to see exactly
what we were doing in all those wars.
All of those places were made safe(r) for foreign investment. That was
the whole point.
The Shah couldn't put the entire religious leadership into exile or
jail, he got rid of only the Ayatollah. He did have all of the
non-religious opposition killed, leaving only the religious
And you're comparing apples to oranges. The comparison is not Shah vs
Current Religious Nuts. It is Shah vs the democratically elected
government that we overthrew in order to install the Shah. It is far
from the only time that we overthrew a democracy and installed a
dictator, so let's ditch any bullshit that we support democracy around
the world. We support democracy only as long as someone willing to
play with our big Capitalists wins.
the rest clipped because I don't have time to deal with it all right
now. We are the most powerful country on earth, the only superpower. I
view what we do around the world as critically important and thus I am
free to blame us, because we are often at fault.
Since you haven't heard of our role in inflicting Saddam on Iraq:
That is where we disagree. Having someone like the Shah of Iran,
that kept the islamic extremists locked up, kept the commies at bay
and brought peace and stability to the middle east was in my interest
and the interest of the whole world.
<The interest of the
Oh, screw Butler. As if one general from 100 years ago
is the oracle of all knowledge.
Haiti is safe for foreign investment? Good grief! There are plenty
of investment opportunities all over the world. Corporations don't
the USA to make hell holes like Haiti or Nicaragua safe so they can
"invest" in them. But when you start out with a jaundiced, conspiracy
view of the USA, that's where you wind up.
Why not? Umm, well, it's because he focused on and locked
up only the most radical nuts. And it worked. We had 3 decades of
peace and Iran was not financing terror.
Which is a lie.
The obvious flaw in that argument is being exposed daily. When
given the chance for true democracy, these muslims prefer to
turn control over to a few religious extremists. Just look at what
happened in Egypt. They just traded Mubarak for the muslim
I suppose that choice is the fault of the USA too. Even when
given every opportunity for a peaceful democracy, they turn to
violence. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the case of the shah, Iran had 3 decades of peace and relative
prosperity. He built schools, educated the illiterate, built
Oh, and he didn't finance and harbor terrorists.
Oh yes, what an authoritative source! Very credible. I can find you
a lot more "sources"
like that which claim 911 was a govt conspiracy. I hope you don't
that nonsense too.....
Major logic fail from a socialist ideologue
So called "big Capitalists" (sic) are nothing but a stupid red herring
talking point for pinkies.
In actual fact, ALL of the so-called "big Capitalists" (sic) that the
pinkies like to demonize have benefitted ALL of the US.
To understand why would require that you spend some time educating
Far easier to just spout stupid and ignorant ideology
And foreign investment benefitted both the investors and the economies that
were invested in.
rest of repetitious pinky propaganda ignored
Yeah, the Cubans felt like they were American slaves. That's
why as Castro and the commies took over, so many of them
fled by the boat load to the USA, right? In fact, they continued
to flee to the USA for the next 50 years. My high school
Spanish teacher was one of them. For the real slaves,
you need only look at those still living in Cuba. They aren't
even allowed to leave the country. But you always side with
the commie dictators, while basing the USA. Proving once again
that you are indeed the village idiot and a commie pinko
bedwetter to boot!
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