Need plumbing advice

[Peabody]

I have a slab house (1972) with copper water pipes. But at each fixture that switches over to a galvanized nipple on which the shutoff valve is threaded.

The current problem involves the cold water supply to the kitchen sink and refreigerator ice maker. Here's a couple pictures:

In case it isn't obvious, the vertical copper line above the Tee is just a capped anti-knock thing.

I lost all water flow to the ice maker, so I removed the ice maker shutoff valve and the stem from the main shutoff valve, cleaned out all the crud that was blocking the flow, and reinstalled everything. Everything seemed to work ok, but now I get rusty water first thing in the morning, so I assume that at least the vertical galvanized nipple that I cleaned out, and perhaps other stuff, is continuing to rust. And because it runs so seldom, the ice maker will presumably be making very rusty ice cubes, which is not a good thing.

I would like to completely replace everything from the rear nipple forward, but am worried about breaking something. Based on my experience with the ice maker valve, I think if I heat the back end of the galvanized Tee I should be able to break it loose. But I'm concerned about where the rear galvanized nipple connects into the copper(?) Tee.

So the first question is whether that copper Tee is in fact brass. And if it is, is that just a normal pipe thread joint?

And the second question is whether I could instead put the torch on the front of the brass Tee and then remove that little rear galvanized nipple too. Or would that risk melting the solder on the copper connections, or risk damaging the brass Tee? I also have some Penetrating Blaster that might help break things loose, but don't want to poison myself.

I would appreciate any advice on what to do here. Of course I could call a plumber, and maybe should do that, but would rather not if this is not too dangerous for me to attempt. I just don't want to damage the brass T in any way.

One more slightly related question. I also have the rusty water problem at one bathroom sink, but in that case the galvanized nipple sticks out of the wall, and the brass Tee, if there is one, is behind the wall, so there's no way to put a second wrench on it. How would a plumber go about replacing that nipple?

Thanks for any help.

[taxed and spent]

I don't think you need heat to remove those fittings. Maybe WD-50 and a whack with a hammer, if that.

[tony944]

person that plumb that should get betting over the head with baseball bat.

I have a slab house (1972) with copper water pipes. But at each fixture that switches over to a galvanized nipple on which the shutoff valve is threaded.

The current problem involves the cold water supply to the kitchen sink and refreigerator ice maker. Here's a couple pictures:

In case it isn't obvious, the vertical copper line above the Tee is just a capped anti-knock thing.

I lost all water flow to the ice maker, so I removed the ice maker shutoff valve and the stem from the main shutoff valve, cleaned out all the crud that was blocking the flow, and reinstalled everything. Everything seemed to work ok, but now I get rusty water first thing in the morning, so I assume that at least the vertical galvanized nipple that I cleaned out, and perhaps other stuff, is continuing to rust. And because it runs so seldom, the ice maker will presumably be making very rusty ice cubes, which is not a good thing.

I would like to completely replace everything from the rear nipple forward, but am worried about breaking something. Based on my experience with the ice maker valve, I think if I heat the back end of the galvanized Tee I should be able to break it loose. But I'm concerned about where the rear galvanized nipple connects into the copper(?) Tee.

So the first question is whether that copper Tee is in fact brass. And if it is, is that just a normal pipe thread joint?

And the second question is whether I could instead put the torch on the front of the brass Tee and then remove that little rear galvanized nipple too. Or would that risk melting the solder on the copper connections, or risk damaging the brass Tee? I also have some Penetrating Blaster that might help break things loose, but don't want to poison myself.

I would appreciate any advice on what to do here. Of course I could call a plumber, and maybe should do that, but would rather not if this is not too dangerous for me to attempt. I just don't want to damage the brass T in any way.

One more slightly related question. I also have the rusty water problem at one bathroom sink, but in that case the galvanized nipple sticks out of the wall, and the brass Tee, if there is one, is behind the wall, so there's no way to put a second wrench on it. How would a plumber go about replacing that nipple?

Thanks for any help.

[TomR]

It seems like your main or only real concern is the rusty water, both at the sink and at the icemaker. My guess is that any rust that is now showing up is just from when you did some recent work and some rust breaking up in the pipes. Or, possibly, the town was doing some flushing of lines and that stirred up some rust. I doubt that the rust that you are seeing is from the one or two iron fittings, or from any new rust that is forming.

I think the fix is just to find a way to open the lines and let the water run until all the rust gets flushed out. That should be easy with the sink. And, I would open up all of the other faucets one at a time and let the water run in those until the water runs clear. The ice maker may be a different story unless you have a way to open up the icemaker lines and let water flush through them -- maybe with the fridge/freezer unplugged since you don't want to make ice, just flush the lines.

Or, if you were thinking of replacing the iron valves, I would probably just cut the copper lines and eliminate the existing copper Tee and any valves in that area. Then replace it all with new copper Tee's, valves, etc. I wouldn't leave any threaded fittings. You can do the replacements by soldering the copper, or you can use SharkBite style fittings that don't require soldering. But, due to the small working area, soldering may be a better choice.

Let us know what you try and how it works out.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

We have a mixture of copper piping and galvanized elbows in the bathroom plumbing. Any time we have been away for a few weeks, there is rust coloring in the water the first time we turn on a bathroom faucet again. If those elbows weren't buried in the walls I'd replace them with brass.

Perce

[trader_4]

I would cut off the copper pipe coming out of the slab. Get rid of that abortion that's there, including the useless anti-knock stub. Then put it back together using all copper, new supply valve, etc. There is plenty of pipe there accessible, long enough to work with. Only thing you need to be sure of is that you can drain the water out of the pipe so you can solder it.

The anti-knock is useless because whatever air is trapped in there will be absorbed into the water under pressure over time. It's just like a tank on a well pump. Without an air bladder or a means to replace the lost air, it becomes water logged.

That thing was certainly duffus amature hour work.

[trader_4]

Forgot to add that for the new valve, I'd get one that's threaded and solder an adaptor onto the copper line. That way if the valve fails in the future, you can replace it without soldering.

Also, forgot to address this:

If they had to replace it, they'd put a pipe wrench on it and hope for the best. If it was done right, the fitting and pipe inside the wall should be supported enough that you can back out the nipple. But then if it was done right, you wouldn't have steel nipples and that little bit of everything that's there. You can probably get it out without trouble, but it's also possible that before it unscrews something will break inside the wall. If that happens, then you or a plumber, would have more work....

[Peabody]

Thanks very much for the responses. It seems like everybody wants me to cut the copper feed and resolder something new in there. To be honest, I've never soldered copper pipe before, and I just don't feel comfortable trying that. So is there no encouragement for me to unscrew the entire setup from the copper or brass Tee? Then I could replace everything with brass if that's best.

And TomR, what I'm getting is rusty colored water when I first turn on the faucet after it's been off all night. Well, the first cup or so is clear, then a couple cups of rusty water. And after that it's clear. To me, that suggests it isn't the city working on the lines, but rather something happening overnight in the area in question. I agree that it's surprising that enough rusting would take place in just a few hours to be visible, but I don't have another explanation.

[taxed and spent]

I don't. If the galvanized unscrews ok, why do more work than is needed? And I can solder just fine, I just don't see the need to do so in this instance.

[tony944]

You don?t need resolder anything! What you need brass tee and two brass nipples for each connection!!!

And TomR, what I'm getting is rusty colored water when I first turn on the faucet after it's been off all night. Well, the first cup or so is clear, then a couple cups of rusty water. And after that it's clear. To me, that suggests it isn't the city working on the lines, but rather something happening overnight in the area in question. I agree that it's surprising that enough rusting would take place in just a few hours to be visible, but I don't have another explanation.

[trader_4]

If the galvanized unscrews OK is the operative part of that. How about if while he torques it up, he screws the pipe coming out of the slab? It probably won't happen, but then I don't know the skill set we're working with here either. Pro plumber would cut that out and be done with it. He did say he was going to heat it, which implies he has a torch, so I figured he can solder. But then, to each his own.

[taxed and spent]

yes, that is why I included it.

[Molly Brown]