Why does it matter? I understand the two 120v circuits would suddenly be in series in a 240v circuit if the wrong wire pulled out of the outlet, but you would have that if the wrong wire pulled out of the pigtail; so I don't see the difference. (assuming the outlet can safely take two wires...)
Got me, but I suppose, given some of the really cheap outlets , a pigtail is just a more durable connection
No, actually it stall ran, or at least the light was on.
I figured the refrigerator has water going to it from the icemaker, so in the event of a leak it might be a good idea, no?
So far, the GFCI I put on the washer/dryer outlet works fine.
The one I tried on the refrigerator outlet kept tripping as soon as I turned on the power.
How can I tell if the are on separate phases or not?
They are on separate breakers.
I put the GFCI on one outlet (The washer/dryer with the one red line and the two whites), seems to work fine. I tried it on the refrigerator line but it kept tripping.
Appreciate the concept. Determining what is good and bad by only testing is risky. View correct wiring AND verify it separately with numbers. Few problems are as dangerous as an improperly implemented shared neutral.
Route an extension cord from refrigerator outlet to washer room. The hot wire (smaller flat plug hole) from refrigerator to washer circuit hot wire must measure 240 volts. The hot wire from each hot wire receptacle to both neutrals (wider flat hole) (4 measurements) must measure 120 volts.
Finally, wire colors in refrigerator and washer receptacles should match colors attached to breaker box circuit breakers. Discover each circuit breaker positioned in box on opposite phases. Only then do you know (with certainty) that neutral wire will not be overloaded; create a fire.
Reason for putting both circuits on a dual breaker: 1) while working on one circuit, voltage from the other circuit would not accidentally shock the worker. And 2) it would make it obvious that this is a shared neutral - the next person should not make a mistake. Even if you don't install that dual breaker, still, absolutely verify the refrigerator and washer are on opposite phases.
A shared neutral will (should) not trip GFCIs in either receptacle. The fact that a refrigerator GFCI trips would make me nervous (not as nervous over the shared neutral). However, once that problem is resolved, code says to not use a GFCI on refrigerators.
Got a cite for that?
I didn't think so.
Putting a refrigerator on a GFCI is a dumb idea, but it's not a Code violation.
That depends on the breaker box, but generally speaking, odd-numbered breakers are on one leg, even-numbered breakers on the other leg, e.g. (with the two legs labelled A & B):
1 ------- A -------- 11 2 ------- B -------- 12 3 ------- A -------- 13 .. 10 ----- B -------- 20
Bad idea, but not necessarily a Code violation.
That's why you shouldn't put a refrigerator on a GFCI.
Horsepuckey.
That's why it matters!
Remove the outlet -- to replace it, for example -- without killing *both* legs of the Edison circuit, just the one feeding the outlet. If *any* load on the other side of that circuit is switched on, one of the two neutral conductors at the outlet suddenly has a 120V potential to ground, and to the other one.
In my mind, this scenario is a better argument for changing the Code to require handle-tied double pole breakers for all Edison circuits than it is for requiring that the continuity of the neutral be independent of any device, but there it is.
It's the start up current required by the compressor. That's why GFCIs are not recommended for refrigerators. Further, the plug for the fridge is usually unaccesible to anything else, so the safety issue is greatly diminished.
"Yes, if I turn on the breaker, I get 110v between the red wire and
*one* of the white wires.If I test between the red wire and the *other* white wire, I get 220v."
This proves that you are on separate phases
washers and refrigerators shouldnt be GFCI protected because they false trip. one day you will be away and come home finding your fridge is warm because it false tripped.
washers may work fine for mmonths then trip out.
I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE:(
jumping in in the middle of this thread. I'm having a bit of a time understanding the code on the GFCI's in a basement area. I have a property that'll have the laundry in the basement, also i have a sump pump. Now i've read several places not to put washers or sump pumps on a GFCI, but the code 'seems' to indicate that all basement outlets should be GFCI. Can someone help clarify this?
thanks
steve barker
That's what I was thinking... and since I disconnected the outlet without turning the other shared neutral circuit off, it I had been on the same phase wouldn't I have sent that circuit 240v and blown up the refrigerator?
The basic "basement" rule is if it is unfinished space you need GFCI. "Finished" generally refers to wall and floor coverings. There is no exemption for refrigerators or washing machines. If either are tripping a GFCI they are defective. In the 2005 code all receptacles within 5 feet of a laundry sink are required to be GFCI and in 2008 code AFCI is extended to all 15 and
20a receptacles. AFCI incorporates GF protection.
There is, however, no generalized prohibition on using GFCIs with refrigerators, as w_tom claimed.
In fact, the NEC requires plug-in refrigerators and freezers in commercial kitchens to be GFCI protected.
In fact the only place it is even referenced is in 210.52(B)(1)ex2 where they allow a dedicated receptacle for the fridge that is not "serving the countertop" . That may be gone in 2008. I still haven't seen the final copy.
Turn off all breakers. Remove the meter from the socket. Begin removing all wiring in the entire house, including the breaker panel. When this is finished, throw away all wiring, outlets, fixtures, breaker box, and anything else connected to the wiring.
Get your yellow pages, look up electricians, and call an electrician and have the house re-wired.
Your house is incorrectly wired now and it's dangerous if you have
110v on a white wire. You could burn at any moment. Do not delay, do this now.----- Call 911 if you see smoke or flame !!!!
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