On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 00:24:47 -0400, " email@example.com"
They say that he did.
Oates said the gunman wore a gas mask and a ballistic helmet and vest,
as well as leg, groin and throat protectors. He said among the guns
was an AR-15 rifle and that the gunman used two gas canisters.
The first press conference (about 12 hours after the hooha first
broke out) the Chief specifically stated that the vest, helmet, legging,
groin and throat protectors were all either tactical or ballistic (and
IIRC the vest was termed as both). Don't know if that had changed since
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
Even IF he was dressed to the nines in armor, a shot will still sting like
hell. Ballistic armor is meant to protect a life, not cause the bullet to
bounce harmlessly away. A shot to the chest to someone wearing a
bullet-proof vest will, in likelihood, take him down. Certainly several hits
will cause debilitating pain - at least for several minutes.
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:50:08 +0100, "harryagain"
The key word is might. It is worthwhile to review the
(1) It was dark (pitch black).
(2) The area was packed with people.
(3) The shooter was wearing full body armor and a gas mask.
(4) The shooter had just thrown at least one tear gas
grenade, and many of the people in the immediate area were
having trouble even breathing, let alone seeing the shooter
to get a sight picture, even with a red dot laser sight.
(5) Many of the people thought it was some sort of publicity
stunt at the start.
(6) When you are with your family in a movie you are not in
the "psyched up" combat mode (or if you are, you need
counseling and/or meds before you have a heart attack or
(7) The typical concealed carry weapon is a 32/380 or at
most a 9 mm, any of which is highly doubtful to make much of
an impression on a pumped up shooter, possibly on drugs,
wearing body armor. A high energy/high penetration
weapon/round effective against body armor and/or with
sufficient "knock down", such as a FMJ 38 super automatic
(CIP designation) would have extreme danger of over
penetration and ricochet in a dense movie crowd.
(8) IMNSHO -- given the uncertain circumstances and great
danger of collateral damage, even a SWAT trained
professional would have hesitated to open fire, and would
have difficulty in target acquisition.
FWIW -- I am reposting below an earlier observation about
the laxity of investigation from an epistemological
standpoint, ==>given the increasing frequency, magnitude and
total illogic of recent shooting and assault incidents.<=
===== repeat of earlier posting ====
The usual rhetoric will now spew from the demagogs and
rabble-rousers of both the right and the left, the results
of which will be the traditional debate about how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin and resolve nothing,
while generating large campaign contributions.
==> This incident, particularly on top of other recent
incidents, given the detailed preparations and planning, is
far past a "shit happens" explication. <=
Clearly there is a serious and growing problem of unprovoked
and random violence, which is rapidly escalating in both
frequency and magnitude, but what concrete investigative
steps have been or are being taken, not only in this
instance, but nationwide?
==>Is the CDC involved in epidemiological analysis of these
incidents, and if not, why not?<=
* Were blood samples taken from the suspect on arrest and
analyzed for known =>and more importantly unknown<substances? Is some sort of "super bath salts" or drug
combination/cocktail loose on the streets?
* Were CAT scans made of the suspect's head looking for
brain damage, changes and abnormalities? Is there a new
infectious agent involved or have new street drugs caused
organic brain damage/changes?
* Has the suspect been psychologically analyzed or tested,
particularly for some sort of mind control or post hypnotic
suggestion, possibly in combination with the known/unknown
substances in his blood? Have terrorists developed a real
life "Manchurian Candidate" process?
* How frequently did the suspect play video games and what
types/brands were these? Is this a copycat crime based on a
video game fantasy?
* In as far as it is possible to determine, was the
suspect's diet in way unique or unusual, for example
habitually consuming large amounts of a particular soft
drink or snack?
Lets cut the crap, and get the facts...
NO it wasn't
NO theater is "pitch dark" when a film is showing
The theater may have been full, but people were sitting down
"Packed" is an exaggeration
If nothing else that would make him perfectly identifiable
Add to that the muzzle flashes when shots are fired, and anyone with a
military or police background, or even self-defense training as a civilian,
would have no problem identifying a target.
A red dot laser sight is not a flashlight to light up and identify a target.
It's to identify point-of-aim ON a target
a) I'm ALWAYS in yellow in a public place
b) Anyone who is in white is the one in need of some counseling
Most people who carry, have something in 9 mm or bigger.
32 is rare enough to be the exception or the backup
380 is becoming more common, but the ammo has also been improved
But not that even .22lr in the hands of a experienced shooter can be deadly.
(I do most of my self-defense practice in .22lr, with only a few rounds
fired in the heavier caliber to make sure my POA is the same.)
Think a bit more about this.
The shooter was probably not standing surround (all around) by his victims
He was standing alone where he could face his intended targets
That would place him away from any potential bystanders.
That means that shooting at him would only be a danger to people between
Then you need to read up on the excellent and quite complete study done by
the Secret Service on the subject
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:50:22 -0500, "Atila Iskander"
and a big danger to the people beyond the shooter with a
good aim, particularly if a soft [unarmored] spot like the
head was hit, and around the shooter unless the aim was
perfect. With a high penetration round, i.e. hard/fmj,
serious danger of ricochets also exists.
One big question is how did the perp get in the theater
dressed in body armor, wearing or carrying a gas mask, and
an assault rifle? Walk through the lobby? Use a side or
back entrance? Side and back entrances are normally fire
exits and only open from the inside, and are usually
There is far more to this story.
Yes there is.
One report said he had a used ticket on him when he was arrested.
Based on that, he probably went in normally, slipped out the exit
(why no alarm?), rigged the door, dressed up and came back in.
More will come out in the next few days.
And more will come out of the fantasy-heroes here in the next few days
If it's like a lot of commercial alarm installations that I've seen
it was wired with surface mounted switches & exposed wiring. Then all
you need is a jumper with a couple alligator clips to jump the switch on
the door. I've seen more than one door where the switch had been
bypassed & left that way after it went bad.
In any case, there should be two systems monitoring the exits, with
the switches inside the door frames. One for security, and a second as
part of the burglar/fire alarms
If it's installed correctly, the EOLR would prevent the jumper trick. It
probably had no EOLR supervision.
Yup, one for the alarm and one for a door position switch for the
employees to monitor propped doors. I've installed lots of systems on
college campus dorms that's all it did - sound the keypad with a zone
indicator saying which door has been open for more than "x" seconds.
BS. EOLR only detects open or shorted circuits. it doesn nothing to
prevent bypassing a single switch, unless every switch is a home run. I
used to teach new techs how to install alarm systems, and built an early
central monitoring station.
I installed some in nursing homes that sounded an alarm if any door
except the lobby door was opened to prevent walkaways in their dementia
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