I've got two pipes that lead to and from a small size water heater in my garage. The pipes coming out of the water heater are copper and converge to lead. There is a 90 degree turn from the in/out's on the water heater and I've been able to get the 3 foot section of lead pipe unscrewed from the next 90 degree turn that bends into a 10" section of pipe that is screwed into a "T" junction on the water lines. It is this 10" section and 90 degree turn that I can't remove from the "T" junction.
Looking at the lead pipe, there appears to be some sort of white paste that was used on the pipe when the pipes were joined many years ago. I've tried to torch to pipes to loosen them, but nothing. I'm using a Pipe Wrench to try and remove the pipe...
I want to replace the pipe with less than 1" extension from the "T" and make it CPVC to a 90 degree elbow on a new raised platform the small water heater will be on.
Can anyone suggest how to "FREE" this pipe? Is this some sort of bonding agent between the "T" join and the 10" pipe?
Thanks
BTW: The pipe is less than 1" thick, 10" is the length.
Lead pipe? I hope this isn't potable water...I suspect that it is just black iron since the pipe wrench would have destroyed lead pipe if you put any significant torque on it.
The white stuff is thread sealant and nothing to worry about.
In order to unscrew the pipe you may need to do a couple things:
1) soak the joint in a corrosion dissolving agent such as PB Blaster
2) heat the "T" with your torch. Do not apply the torch to the 10" nipple since the idea is to get the "T" to expand slightly more than the nipple which will break the corrosion bond in the joint.
Heating nearly always works. It may be necessary to improvise a heat shield to protect any flamable material which happens to be nearby. Some folks keep a fire extinguisher (or even a bucket of water) handy just in case.
If all else fails, cut the 10" nipple in the middle and use a Sharkbite fitting to make the transition to CPVC.
It might be cost effective (if you value your time) to tear out a bit of it and replace it with some type of plastic. The plastic fittings can be "pricey" but the tubing is just down in the noise.
PCGumshoe wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
Peweter/gray sounds like galvanized iron pipe which used to be commonly used for potable water systems. A Sharkbite wouldn't be a good idea for that pipe since the water would be exposed to the zinc. Avoid breathing any fumes if you apply heat to break the joint loose. Zinc poisoning is not fun. If you do breath fumes and wake up tomorrow with aching joints, drink lots of milk. Don't ask how I know this...
Heating might be tough to do if you're using a common propane torch. It may take several heating/cooling cycles to break all the corrosion. You could try rapid cooling of the nipple to help develop differential expansion.
Just a note here about zinc poisoning. You are not going to get zinc poisoning from heating a galvanized pipe. If you cut it with a oxy/acetylene torch, and you cut enough of it, you may get poisoning. To counteract the effects of zinc poisoning, you must drink milk BEFORE any symptoms appear, or it is too late. You won't die, but you will be sick. It takes quite a bit of cutting of galvanized materials to get it however and unless one is super susceptable to zinc, one pipe will not do it.
And you MAY ask me how I know. I have cut ALOT of galvanized materials in the industrial world and have suffered the effects only once, but that was enough for me.
First of all, it will not be lead pipe. It will be galvanized pipe or something else. If it were lead, you would be able to melt it.
That said, if you want to shorten the pipe and can get to it, just cut it off at the desired length and rethread the end. Then proceed with your project. Handthreaders are rentable and simple. Applying heat to the tee would give you more of a chance to remove the existing pipe if you would rather do that. IOW, don't heat the pipe, heat the fitting.
Simple. You're using an old, way-too-small and worn out pipe wrench. Throw the thing in the trash and head for a real hardware store and buy a Ridgid aluminum 24" or better pipe wrench. Add a slip over pipe extension handle if you want to, apply to the galvanized pipe section and you'll be amazed at how easily it gives up. Wimpy tools are why so many amateurs get frustrated. Remember, you can always rent something big enough to do the job right if buying isn't in your budget. good luck.
Robert Allison wrote in news:Mpmvi.688$%t4.686@trnddc03:
You may believe your statements but they aren't entirely true. It doesn't take much zinc to cause problems. Bottom line, don't take a chance. Also, milk helps even after the fact.
Most likely 3/4 galvanized water pipe. And the white stuff is pipe dope, to help keep the thread from leaking.
Use two pipe wrenches. One to hold the fitting, the other to apply the torque. The wrenches should face oposite directions. One opens up, the other opens down.
I got a set of three wrenches, in a case like this I'd use the 18 incher to hold the fitting, and the 24 incher to apply torque.
I believe it because it was what I experienced and was taught while employed by Brown & Root, Valkem, Payne & Keller, just to name a few. We were given safety classes in the hazards that we would and did face on a day to day basis while working in chemical plants, oil refineries and power plants.
Although the safety personnel and the medical personnel that gave us our safety instructions were careful to point out that milk is NOT an accepted treatment for metal fume fever, we were told to come to the safety office and drink milk under the supervision of a safety officer BEFORE we were allowed to torch cut, grind, or weld on galvanized. Typical CYA in action.
Here is a bit more safety info on this condition for those that may be torch cutting or welding galvanized metal:
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You may notice that no mention is made about milk. That is because it is NOT considered a valid treatment. Milk works great if you drink it before ingesting fumes. The half gallon that I drank after the fact had no effect whatsoever and I had symptoms for 24 hours after exposure.
Robert Allison wrote in news:NNrvi.362$jU4.265 @trnddc02:
No treatments at all are mentioned at that link so I'm not suprised that milk isn't there. Since the typical zinc poisoning lasts much longer than
24 hours perhaps the milk did do some good? The welders I worked with believed in milk.
I know that you will believe what you want. I will do the same. As usual, the truth is almost always somewhere in the middle.
You may believe what you will. For the others in here that may have the occasion to cut (with a torch), burn or weld on galvanized metal, it would be in their interest to NOT believe as you do. They may get sick.
For the record: If you must work with galvanized metal (cutting, burning welding) then you should drink milk before and/or during exposure. If you wait til you get symptoms, it will be too late. After all, we are not talking about heroin here, just milk. The rate of 1 pint of milk per hour of exposure has served me well for the last 35 years. I have only been sick once. I will not be doing that again. The trip to the emergency room, the pain, the discomfort is not worth saving the price of a pint of milk, or waiting til the symptoms occur to test Clarks hypothesis.
Provide adequate ventilation, avoid the fumes, wear breathing apparatus in enclosed spaces and drink milk.
I have been exposed to months of cutting and welding galvanized steel in the fabrication of handrails, grating, platforms, catwalks, galvanized stairways, demolition of industrial plants, etc. I am not guessing here. I have been to at least 20 safety orientations that have discussed this specifically.
Metal fume fever (or as we called it: fitters fever) will not occur with incidental exposures, but if you are exposed to fumes for more than 15 minutes, then you are susceptible. It is no fun. If you go to the emergency room, they will give you an analgesic (aspirin) for the pain and perhaps a cortisone shot. Then you just have to wait for it to go away. I have seen it last from 12 to 48 hours. It usually starts about 6 to 24 hours after exposure. Mine set in about 12 hours after exposure and lasted 24 hours. That was after milk and a trip to the ER.
I don't like to see info that may make people sick when they don't have to be.
Robert Allison wrote in news:cmwvi.399$jU4.158 @trnddc02:
Sheesh.How is that? I suggested avoiding any fumes at all. You are the one who said small exposure is ok. I am the one who suggested the safest course. [snip]
I don't either. That's why my original suggestion was to avoid funes entirely. Perhaps in your need to be correct you've failed to note that fact.
Robert Allison wrote in news:oPwvi.407$jU4.134@trnddc02:
Then you wear an respirator approved for zinc exposure. That's not so hard now is it? Yup the respirator is a little uncomfortable but it is better than the poisoning yourself.
Look Robert, you said if people did what I said they would get sick. That is clearly a false statement. In other words Robert, you are clearly incorrect about what I said and any harmful effects of following my advise. If you wish to misconstrue things that is your business but I will expose your false statements. Got it?
Which one of my statements is false? If you wait to drink milk until symptoms are present, you are already sick, correct? Even if your theory (which I have seen proved wrong in the real world) were correct, waiting to drink milk until you are sick, by definition means that you are already sick. If you advocate doing that, then your advice is going to make people sick, needlessly.
Do you stand by your recommendation to wait until symptoms appear before drinking milk IF you are exposed to fumes?
Perhaps YOUR need to be correct is overpowering your cognitive abilities.
Robert Allison wrote in news:I3Gvi.647$jU4.405@trnddc02:
Which one of your statements is false? Show me where I said wait until symptoms appear before drinking milk. I never said that at all. Go back and re-read every post and you will see that I never said "wait". Do you see your error now?
Here is summary of your position and mine.
You: If someone is going to be exposed to zinc fumes it's ok if it's for less than 15 minutes. Drink milk before the job if the exposure is going to be longer.
Me: Avoid exposure. If you are exposed, then drink some milk because it will reduce the symptoms.
Now Robert, how will someone who believes as I do be more likely to get sick when I advocate avoiding exposure entirely? That's right, they aren't more likely to get sick. In other words: your claim that if someone believes as I will get zinc poisoning is false. Do you get it now?
About the only thing I can add is that I could have used the word "accidently" in front of "exposed" to make it clear to you. Clearly I failed to take into account your ability to misinterpt what I typed.
By the way, only one of the URLs posted even mentions treating the symptoms. In other words, your post didn't support you claim that drinking milk after the exposure is not helpful.
If you are chang "Zinc poisoning is not fun. If you do breath fumes and wake up tomorrow with aching joints, drink lots of milk. Don't ask how I know this..."
I take this to mean that if you are exposed to fumes, then if you should feel any symptoms, drink some milk. Or are you trying to say that one should NOT wait to feel symptoms to take precautionary steps to avoid them entirely? If that is what you were trying to say, then you failed in your presentation, this is a misunderstanding and you agree with me.
I then responded:
"...To counteract the effects of zinc poisoning, you must drink milk BEFORE any symptoms appear, or it is too late...."
To which you replied:
"....Also, milk helps even after the fact."
It may help, but only in the sense that you only think you are dying for a shorter period of time.
Incorrect. I advocate avoiding fumes entirely. (Look at the websites.) Sometimes you can't. Incidental exposure will not cause problems. If you are exposed for 15 minutes or more, then you are at risk. That is different than your summary.
Correct summary of your statements: Avoid exposure. If you are exposed and you feel symptoms, drink some milk, it will lessen the symptoms. (I assume that this means you will only think you are slightly dying.)
If they avoid exposure, there is no problem. But if they take the rest of your advice after being exposed then they may get sick. If you believe that you should wait until you feel symptoms to take precautionary measures, then you will ALREADY be sick. If they take my advice, then they can avoid any symptoms at all. IOW, they will not get sick.
I don't need support. I am telling you what I have learned from experience. You are challenging my statements. You are the one that needs support. You won't find it. And you will find very few references to milk as an antidote from anyone except people like me who have a lot of experience with this. For some reason, you don't want to hear it. You have your opinion and you are sticking to it.
If you are saying that this is all a misunderstanding and that you totally agree with me, then I apologize.
What you may not realize (and I just noticed that this may be the case) is that by drinking milk after exposure, you can avoid being sick at all. That has been my experience. Perhaps you believed that drinking milk will lessen the effects. That is not the case. Drinking milk during and after exposure absorbs the metals in your system (according to some theories) and keeps you from feeling any symptoms whatsoever. Once they start, though, there isn't anything that will make them stop. Maybe milk shortens the time that you think you are dying, but who cares? I would rather not feel like I am dying at all. So I do what works. You can do what you want.
I have sat with many young kids that thought this was all bullshit and given them aspirin and told them it would all be OK in a while. I have taken many to the ER. From then on, they drank milk and got a lot more careful.
I think that the ones in here that may be watching this thread have already gotten the message. I just wanted to make sure about that before I bow out of this argument. I have had it many times before and I have been proven right by many people that did not want to listen. They learned the hard way. Some people will listen to experience, some won't. They just want to be right. I even had one guy tell me that I should have FORCED him to drink milk! What I should have done is fire him for not taking the proper precautions.
Everyone is free to test the theories. I suggest you try it both ways and then get back to me. I already have. Numerous times.
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