I want to install a dimmer switch to control the lighting in my dining room. My house was built in 1925. There are two light switches connected to one workbox. One light switch controlls the light in my dining room. The second lightswitch currently does not contol anything. At one time it probably contolled the light in the kitchen but the kitchen was remodeled 50 years ago and the lights in there are gone.
When I removed the faceplate to the workbox I found two wires inside. They are not color coded. One wire connected to the top of lightwitch number one ( controllng my dining room light). The second wire looped around a copper screw at the bottom of lightswitch number one and then continued on to lightswitch number 2 where it terminated.
How would I then install a dimmer to control the lighting in my dining room? I believe the top wire is hot. The bottom wire to lightswitch number two...is that a grounding wire...treated as a green wire? Or is that the second hot wire...treated as a black wire?
The second wire is hot. It once fed both switches, and should have been cut shorter and disconnected when the 2nd switch was abandoned. The wire connected to the top of the switch goes to the light.
May I suggest that you do a little research and find some diagrams on how a switched is wired. This will help you understand what you have.
A switch, when wired correctly, will open/close the hot lead to a fixture. That means that one wire in your box (probably the bottom wire) is always hot and the other is hot only when the switch is closed. Technically, they are both considered hot wires.
Based on your description, it sounds like switch number 2 - assuming there is only one wire attached to it - can be removed (after shutting off the breaker of course).
Switch number 1 can be replaced with a dimmer by attaching the two leads from the dimmer to the 2 existing wires with wire nuts.
Of course, this all assumes that the existing installation is correct
- it's possible that the existing installation is wrong and that the neutral wire is being switched. That would take a bit of investigation to determine, and should be corrected before installing the dimmer.
Ouch. If you can't tell which is hot and which is neutral and from your wording about green, you are definitely not qualified to learn/do this task safely for you or for your house.
In a house that old there may not be ANY semblence of order to the color or use of the wiring and even if the colors can be determined, they aren't necessarily connected right back at the fuse/breaker box.
At LEAST get a basic electricity understanding and a cheap voltmeter/ohmmeter before tackling this job and definitely have someone knowledgable check out your plans.
Wow! You were able to make this assessment of the OP's ability to learn from just one post.
You have an amazing talent that you should market to corporate head hunters, educational institutions, major league sport teams and countless other organizations. .
I was a real man once...and have the scars to show it.
Ran 400 VDC in one hand and out the other, all the while holding a 30 lb power supply at arm's length while I twitched around shouting "Turn it off! Turn it off!"
A classmate (USCG training class) pulled the plug and saved my life. Me and my bloody hands came back the next day but 2 other guys quit.
Its obvious by your questions that you have no experince with this type of work, and and you should not be attemping to do it based upon typed direcitons from folksomn this group who hae not actually seen the wiring and tested it with a meter.
Yes, an electrician can be expensive. An electrician can also be a lot cheaper than a fire or an emergency room visit if you make a serious error.
I'd like to poll all the members of this group who currently know how to wire a switch. Please press 1, 2 or 3 based on the group you fit into. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
1 - I was born with the requisite skills to open any electrical box and immediately understand how it is wired. I never had to open a book, ask a question, take a course or be shown how to work on a circuit. The first time I took a cover off a switch box I simply used the skills inherent in my biological makeup and dove right into the repair.
2 - The first time I wanted to replace a switch I did some research. I asked some questions, took a book out of the library and/or asked someone with the required knowledge to teach me how to do. After I was confident that I understood the situation and the steps required, I replaced the switch myself.
3 - Whenever I run into a situation where I don't have the knowledge or skills, I put my tail between my legs and call a professional. I don't want to learn anything new and will always be afraid to venture into areas beyond my current scope of knowledge.
Amen. Several people killed recently in yet another 'electrical fire'!
While I agree with some of the directions/suggestions in these answers, must agree that when anybody starts asking questions in the manner of this original post, using terms such as "I believe the top wire is hot ..." and whether one of the wires is 'ground', it seems very apparent they have no idea how or why a light switch works. That warning that those switching wires may even be in the neutral lead (who can tell from the info. given) is also pertinent in any old, possibly often modified and possibly messsed around with 1925 wiring. Please be careful; and is it really necessary to try and install a light dimmer into such an old system?????
I have one acquaintance, aged 15 who passed a technical exam with 87% first time, who is more than competent to a) Understand and b) Work on it.
I have another who, no matter how many times I explain a basic (domestic AC) electrial circuit, he doesn't 'get it'! Fortunately he comes and gets me to oversee electrical repairs to his house and also to repair the 12 volt systems, with multiple batteries, of his transport truck!
Obviously (2) is the better answer. Good point made though.
lol, that's a good sea story! Lucky thing it was DC, eh? Wasn't that the worst taste you ever had in your mouth? Bet you never did that again either, did you?
Yup. You see, I have this little knack for ... wait for it ... being able to READ! And I suspect from your tortured response that you are another one but where the OP was likely putting himself in danger, you are also a danger to those around you. You're definitely not the right tool for the job; you're just a tool, period. How's that for a talent? Unlike you, I explained why I said what I said, and offered further assistance in what in my opinion would be his best course of action to approach that job. The OP may accept or reject my post as he wishes. No hard feelings, I simply spoke what I believed. You on the other hand seem to have contributed nothing but an attempt to piss on a table top. Like the tool you seem to be.
With the combination of wrong, misinformed and un-understandable posts I've seen on this group over that last three months or so, there should be a #4.
4 - I ask on this group, throw out all the responses from this poster and the other louts here, take the most reliable information, and then verify it independently elsewhere before I go any further.
You're quite a troll; I could amost predict this response from you.
Well, in all fairness, yeah, I could see installing a dimmer switch, assuming the wiring and insulation were in decent shape at the point where the work needed to be done. It can be a desirable thing regardless of age/upkeep IFF safety is still afforded in that location. It worries me more that someone would get hold of the old cloth insulated wiring which these days seldom has any color left, and try to outguess the ages as to what fits where under the exact circumstances you give above. Even with the best of instructions such a situation isn't for the faint of heart, as you rightfully point out. Lots of problems come to mind in those circumstances and even the more experienced guys need to be careful what they're doing or a simple job can turn into a pretty expensive outing in the end. So I trust the wish for a dimmer being OK. But I don't trust the circumstance to be safe for the apparent experience level of the OP. I suspect the poor guy's been driven off by the idiots and dummies posting unhelpful crap here to put it succinctly.
I have been following the post and I think the consensus is it is difficult to tell which way around the wiring is just from text descriptions here.
If you feel confident doing it yourself here is what might work.
1) You need to find which wire is the hot wire and which is the neutral. For this you need to buy some test equipment. A Volt Probe is what you need. Like this:
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(FlukeProducts) Fluke 1AC-II / 1LAC-II VoltAlert
You can also get them from Home Depot, but maybe not this brand. What this gadget does is it allows you to tell which wire is the Hot one, the one with power, without having to make an electical connection. It can test through insulation. Cost is about $US 14-$US 21.
2) Switch off the light.
3) Disconnect the power at you main breaker / or remove the main fuse to the circuit.
4) Open up the wall switch by removing the face plate.
5) Switch the power back on at the man breaker / put back the main fuse.
6) Note the circuit is now live so be careful. Place the probe near each wire in turn. You do NOT have to make contact with the wire mretal connectors, just place it near the wire. The HOT / Power wire will make the VoltProbe beep. Remember that wire. The other wire is then your Neutral wire.
7) Power down the circuit at the mains
8) Remove the light bulb that the circuit switches.
9) Power back up the circuit.
10) Check to see with your probe if your live wire is still live. If it is, then you are in good shape (case A -- Switch switches the live wire). If there is no power to that wire, this means the light bulb is connected to the hot wire directly, and the switch is switiching the neutral (case B, Switch is swithing the neutral).
11) If the switch is switching the neutral (case B) I would call in a professional and rewire the circuit. Switiching a neutral is bad for a number of safety reasons. (Stop here do not go onto step 12)
12) Power down the circuit.
13) Replace the switch with a dimmer of your choice. You need a single- pole dimmer (as opposed to a 3-pole dimmer). The 3-pole ones will work too but a more expensive, and you do nto need it in this application.
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