Danny D. posted Sun, 6 Apr 2014 18:29:36 +0000 (UTC)
I have read somewhere Android internally divides internal storage into
2 regions, and none of them can use all of free space.Then it depends, what region spends its free space sooner.
On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 12:02:53 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote in
Good points.
My instinct is to say it's a bit of both. Vendor A may have more pre-installed apps than vendor B. If the apps are set to run all the time, the one with more will use more memory. Each edition of Android will probably use a different amount of memory to operate. The difference may be negligible (how much change could there be between 4.2.1 and 4.2.2?), but then again, it could be great. I'm sure Kit Kat requires far more memory than Eclair. I must point out, I've done no research on the matter. I could be completely wrong on all counts.
Is the problem memory or storage? I presumed you meant memory (RAM), but your use of ROM suggests it's storage. If it's ROM, you can't do anything to it. Read Only Memory can't be changed once it is set.
Your storage was increased by 32GB. How is this not augmenting what's available out of the box?
I don't think it would be useless. You could claim it's not as useful as you may want it to be, but I'm certain you would still be able to use it.
It's likely to be mentioned in the accompanying documentation.
This could help you with your complaint. If you ask questions and are given fraudulent answers, then there is a problem.
You've yet to show that the carrier lied. What does the included documentation state about usable memory or space?
Check with LG's site.
If that is the case, then they did lie.
Aside from the calls, there is nothing to suggest anyone lied.
Let's make this clear that I own multiple PCs, and the operating system and pre-installed apps not only take up a puny amount of the total, but that the pre-installed apps can (in most cases) be deleted.
Also, you can easily add memory and hard disk space to almost any PC (either with a larger disc or a second disc drive).
Here, we're talking about an operating system and non-deletable pre-installed apps which take up 3.4GB of a 4GB permanent ROM, and which can't be augmented with an sdcard for app storage.
Totally different story.
Also be advised that I own a Samsung Galaxy S3 which starts with 16GB and we have a hugely detailed thread where no software tells the truth about how much storage space is on that phone even at the start...
How do we get Android to spit out the true memory & storage situation?
Long story short, both the apps and the carrier should just tell the truth. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
Ah, that is an interesting story.
The classic way to figure this out, as you intimated, would be to see what the OS reports. But, we all know that Android prior to 4.3 (and even then, after 4.3 on some devices) doesn't actually report correct answers for usable memory.
Note: Gory details for that sad statement are here: How do we get Android to spit out the true memory & storage situation?
What I actually did, *after* I had filed the FTC and FCC complaints, was call T-Mobile support supervisory staff back, and, after they returned my urgent message, I verbally provided them with the case ID's of both those cases.
Only then did they begin to take me seriously.
Hours later, and after about an hour on the phone, T-Mobile supervisory support staff finally (and for the first time!) actually grabbed a factory default LG Optimus F9, and, with my assistance (because they also gave me the wrong answer first of 1.8GB), confirmed that, out of the box, there is only 600 MB of space, in toto, for user apps. Period.
So, in a way, T-Mobile finally did tell the truth, but, you can imagine (if you don't know me already) that I'm more persistent than your average grandfather figure.
True. T-Mobile told me the same thing. To which I answered that they only had about a score of phones, and they all get the same software, so, it's not all that difficult a task.
It would take a technician about an hour to compile, for the twenty odd phones that T-Mobile owns, for example.
Anyway, what T-Mobile told me was that there are twice as many of those specs as I would have thought, simply because they said a pre-paid phone has different software than a post-paid phone.
So, in toto, how many phones does T-Mobile sell at any one time? I'm guessing about 20. So that's 40 numbers.
All in all, it's not all that onerous to tell the customer the truth.
Hmmm... well, you saw *exactly* what you were supposed to see.
My only point in referencing that ground-breaking thread was to backup my rather unbelievable assertion that what you see reported by the OS, is not necessarily what you actually get.
In fact, I wouldn't believe that assertion that the OS isn't telling you the truth, unless I had verified it myself, and by the eyes of scores of others, who know far more than I do.
That's the only reason I referenced that thread.
That thread wasn't supposed to back up the assertion that the phone is unusable ... it was just to back up the point that what you see isn't necessarily what you actually get.
You are 100% correct that the phone, out of the box, has 600MB of space for app storage.
Whether that's "usable" or not, is up to the user.
It's "my" characterization that 600MB isn't enough to do the things I think a typical user would want to do with a smartphone. But, the phone is a gift. It's not for me.
The L9 came back to me, as unusable, and only then, did I begin to explore the problem (which took me a while to figure out since it wasn't "my" phone).
The problem is we don't know what a "typical" user needs, by way of app storage space.
I do know that in "my" 16GB Samsung Galaxy S3, which has about 12GB of "usable" storage out of the box, I only have about 5GB of space left, and that's not counting any user content which is on the external
32GB microSD card (which, for my Android version, i.e., 4.3, DOES contain those apps which can be moved to the SD card, as allowed by developers).So "I" use, about 7GB for my application data (admittedly I'm a heavy user), and, had I been on the earlier Android OS, it would have been even greater than that.
To be clear, we're ONLY talking about the ROM.
On a phone, for whatever reason, that's generally referred to as "internal memory".
Ah, that's what I had thought too! Before I found out the truth.
In my research, I have found that there are potential solutions, from swapping the SD card for the internal memory, to rooting, to formatting the SD card into three different types of partitions, etc.
It's still confusing to me, a layperson, so, I won't say anything other than I'm sure there is a technical solution that will work.
At the moment, I'm reading about bootloaders so that I can successfully replace the Android OS with cyanogenmod without bricking the phone.
But, that's a different topic altogether.
Agreed.
I would think T-Mobile is taking the easy way out by simply publishing the manufacture's specs on total ROM.
If it wasn't an important number, especially for a 4GB phone, then I wouldn't be asking the FCC/FTC to force the carrier to tell the truth.
But, when are told you have 4GB of memory, but you only get 600MB for app storage, even with a 32GB sdcard, then you begin to realize why T-Mobile does not tell the truth.
If they did, nobody would buy the phone.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I bought a whole bunch of $200 phones, as gifts.
Here are just two of them next to my main phone, the Moto G and the LG Optimus L9 which is the topic of this conversation:
My personal phone is a Samsung Galaxy S3, which has 12GB of usable memory, of which I am using up more than half with apps and their data (in addition to having moved apps to the 32 GB SD card, since it has Android 4.3 which allows "some" apps to be moved to the card).
And, the Moto G is a perfectly fine phone.
It has 16GB, of which about 12GB are usable. The fact it has no external SD card slot is less onerous than you might think, once you realize you can't move apps to the card anyway.
One of the older gifts was an LG Optimus F3, which, from another recent thread, you see that T-Mobile offered to swap out for full value for a Nexus 5 (which also comes with 12GB of usable memory). Of course, that Nexus 5 cost me $400 + tax, as opposed to the $240 + tax of the LG Optimus F3, but I took T-Mobile up on their offer - and that phone is currently being shipped to me (since it can't be shipped directly to the person whom I gave the phone to).
The gift phone I'm currently working on is the $200 LG Optimus L9, which is branded and locked by T-Mobile, but which wasn't sold "by" T-Mobile. So they told me they'd only give me $15 trade in value for this phone, which is unacceptable even though it is in perfect condition.
It was handed back to me, as unusable, and I agree with that assessment, simply because it only has 600MB of storage for apps, and that isn't enough for any typical user (bearing in mind the varying definition of a typical user).
If you use far less than 600MB, then the phone would be usable to you, but, I don't anyone that I've given phones to (and I've handed out a lot) that would be happy with only 600MB of app storage space.
Here is the Motorola spec page which the Motorola support constantly refer to when they answer my question of the "usable" memory:
Bear in mind, I am very clear when I ask the question that I want the *USABLE* memory, available to the user (not the total memory available from the manufacturer):
Also bear in mind, that I know the answer, and they have *never* ever provided the correct answer (until
*after* I gave them the case ID's of my FTC & FCC complaint).I am very clear on this. Every single time I called them to ask, they gave me the wrong answer, except after I had filed my complaints and notified them of those complaints.
If you *ask* them how much space is left over *after* the pre-installed apps and operating system, and they consistently give you the wrong answer, then, yes, they're not telling the truth.
All I'm asking is for the carriers to tell the truth when a consumer asks the question.
Take a look at this screenshot of "my" personal phone, and notice how many dashcam apps I have installed, as just one example of how I use "my" phone:
I have installed all known offline map apps (and the record will show I have written tutorials on how to use them), and I've tested hundreds of Android apps, over the past few years.
For just one example, please see: My personal test of 20 free offline Android gps map routing applications .
Given I'm likely a heavy user of ROM, for you to assume that I would find a 4GB phone usable for myself, is patently absurd, as even the Samsung Galaxy S3 leaves something to be desired by way of performance.
However, you're welcome to take exception that a "typical" user would need more than 600MB of storage space for their apps.
It's a topic of a different thread what a typical user needs. My "assumption" is that 600MB would not cut it for a typical user ... but I'll let the typical users out there say what *they* need.
Certainly my gift recipient found it useless, or I wouldn't have the phone back in my hands to fix as a small appliance repair task.
I did better than that. I called LG directly, at 800-243-0000.
But here's what LG has to say on their web site:
As noted in another thread, LG pointed fingers when I spoke to their experts, just as T-Mobile had when I asked for the technical support supervisors' opinions.
LG Mobile Communications Support told me that they don't install *any* software.
This is odd because clearly there is LG-branded software on the phone, e.g., Accessibility /system/app/LGSettingsAccessibility.apk 655KB Alarm/clock /system/app/LGAlarmClock.apk 13.66MB Browser /system/app/LGBrowser.apk 9.86MB Calculator /system/app/LGCalculator.apk 1.69MB Calendar /system/app/LGCalendar.apk 5.65MB Calendar Storage /system/app/LGCalendarProvider.apk 690KB Contacts /system/app/LGContacts3.apk 13.38MB Contacts Storage /system/app/LGContactsProviders3.apk 2.14MB Downloads /system/app/LGDownloadProviderUi.apk 161KB Download Manager /system/app/LGDownloadProvider.apk 438KB Email /system/app/LGEmail.apk 9.27MB etc.
In addition, LG personnel blamed *Google* for the inability for moving the unwanted apps to the sd card.
And, they blamed T-Mobile for the inability of deleting the pre-installed apps that T-Mobile puts on the phone.
In essence, LG says they hand a phone with 4GB of internal memory to the carrier, and it's the carrier who loads up that 4GB of ROM with 3.4GB of non-removable stuff.
Hence, my FCC/FTC complaint is against the carrier, and not against LG.
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