Hot tub electrical question

First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfort able messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibili ty and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a bre aker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was o lder and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last yea r. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller ho t tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge , 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy th ing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as sim ple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a re ceptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?

Thanks.

-J

Reply to
J
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Depending on the electrical code, it may be as siimple as replacing the breaker on the outside box to a 15 amp breaker if it is actually a 4 wire circuit. The 2 hots, neutral and ground.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

It is trivial, hardest part will be getting the 6 gauge onto a standard receptacle.

Reply to
FrozenNorth

For which a split-bolt pigtail is the best solution.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

What those guys were trying to say without a lot of success is that it should be an easy, relatively inexpensive job, and take an experienced electrician less than 30 minutes to do.

Reply to
hrhofmann

Look into it a little deeper. Most of these tubs can be converted to

240v with the advantage that they heat up 4x faster and you can run the pump and the heat at the same time.
Reply to
gfretwell

It would have to be a pretty small "load" to get by with just ~1800W (for pump, blower and heater).

Make the adaptation at the "cut off box" and no one will bat an eyelash. You can install a smaller breaker, there, and treat it as a subpanel (one that only feeds a 15A circuit).

Do you have any other things nearby that you'd also want to power? I.e., that could justify another circuit hanging off that "subpanel"?

Be sure you look into GFCI requirements if they aren't satisfied by the branch circuit itself.

Reply to
Don Y

rtable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibi lity and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a b reaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside o n the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This w as done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the co st for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last y ear. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, thoug h they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

ge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as s imple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into th e tub)?

It is doable, but let the electrician make the determination.

The 15 amp plug-in type hot tubs operate a little differently than what you had. Because of the small power supply, the hot tub will only heat water when it is not in use. When you have the jets blowing bubbles, the heater will not operate. This is fine if you don't use the tub for extended perio ds where the water would cool down while you are in it.

John Grabowski

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Reply to
John G

To add to Don's point, my drip coffee maker needs 900 watts or

7.5 amps. I don't know what a water bed would need for power. That would probably be a better comparison. The hitch in that comparison would be an enclosed, blanket insulated bag of water vs. and open tank.

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Reply to
Dean Hoffman

When I'm in the bathtub for even 30 minutes, either the water cools off or it just feels like it has because I've gotten used to it. I have to keep adding a trickle of hot water.

I was going to measure the temperature to see if it's what changes but I haven't yet.

Reply to
micky

Probably some of both. Large surface area to give up heat, plus the tub itself is a big heat sink, but you do get used to the temperature.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

And, do you want to leave that tub *heated* 24/7 just so it is "up to temperature" when you decided to use it? You can arrange for the heat to be switched on before you are *likely* to want to use it -- but, if it takes a long time to get up to temperature, you risk heating water for a long time -- only to NOT use it.

[By contrast, a higher capacity heater will let you postpone that decision until you're reasonably sure you want to use it]

In places with high cooling loads, you can purchase a heat exchanger to harvest "waste heat" from your ACbrrr and redirect this to heat your pool, hot tub, etc. Thermostatic controlled so you don't end up feeling like a boiled lobster (if your cooling load is considerably larger than your hot tub "heating load").

No idea as to installed cost but sure looks like a clever idea!

Reply to
Don Y

The problem is you tend to use a hot tub when it is cool enough outside where the A/C is not on.

I found solar collectors work well tho. If you are really up there in the frozen north you may need glazed collectors instead of the regular open pool collector like I can use. I can get my tub about 15-20 degrees warmer than ambient air for free tho during the day and that is a nice head start before I turn the heat on.

Reply to
gfretwell

That depends on where you live! :> Here, it's rarely cool enough to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

A "bubble wrap" cover (i.e., just small pockets of trapped air) on a swimming pool, here will typically bring the water temperature up to

105+F essentially "for free" (trap any captured heat so it isn't lost overnight when ambient temps drop to 90's)

Many folks have hundreds of feet of black tubing coiled on their roofs as "poor man's pool heaters". I don't think I know anyone who actually burns energy to heat their pool (though a friend in Chicago used natural gas to heat his indoor pool -- no other practical options in that climate)

OTOH, I think folks *do* actively heat their hot tubs/spas -- perhaps because many of those are in covered structures and can't benefit from direct solar.

Reply to
Don Y

Sounds like Arizona. ;-)

Here in Florida we relish the days when you can open the windows (Nov-Mar) and the hot tub feels good about the same time. In the summer it is just swapping water with the pool and not really used at all.

Reply to
gfretwell

I don't think I know anyone with the "combination" hot-tub/pool configuration. People tend to either have pools or hot tubs but not usually both.

There is also a downside of using them in the hottest portions of the year because those also tend to be the driest. It is not uncommon to get out of a pool and find yourself enveloped in a cloud of "steam" -- as all of the water on your body evaporates quickly (which usually leaves you *freezing* cold -- even in 110F temperatures stepping out of 105F water!). So, the humid parts of summer (i.e., Monsoon) tend to be more comfortable *in* the water.

We've considered purchasing an "infinite pool" to get the advantages of a pool (exercise) and hot tub (soaks) -- without losing all that land (and water!) to the alternative.

Reply to
Don Y

Different strokes I guess.

When the humidity is in the 80s, evaporation is not an issue but I have been out there and I know what you are talking about.

My pool and spa are not a combo unit, they are about 50 feet apart. There is just a common pipe that connects the spa overflow to the pool suction via the vent and another valve that bleeds off a little pool return water into the spa.

Reply to
gfretwell

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT), J wrote in

After the 220v/50A hot tub, you will be very disappointed in the 110V models. They are very wimpy. Since you already have the wiring, I suggest sticking with the 220v models.

Reply to
CRNG

300W to 500W depending on the heater. As the water in the water bed isn't being constantly replaced by ground temperature water or being lost to evaporation and given reasonably insulating bedding, the waterbed heater doesn't need to be high power.
Reply to
Scott Lurndal

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 4:14:21 PM UTC-4,

ou had. Because of the small power supply, the hot tub will only heat wate r when it is not in use. When you have the jets blowing bubbles, the heate r will not operate. This is fine if you don't use the tub for extended per iods where the water would cool down while you are in it.

+1

My first spa, I made that mistake too. When I found out the disadvantages it was still new, so I got the company to switch out the controller pack for a 240V one.

To summarize, there are two issues: First is what John pointed out, that the heater will not heat while the pump is on high and the blower is going. That may not be so bad, because usually you're not going to be in it long enough for the water to cool down much. But it does mean that whatever temp it's at when you get in, it's only going down.

Second is what GFRE pointed out, that at 240V it will heat at 4X the rate as 120V. To me, that makes a big difference, especially in one that is outside. I keep mine at the lowest temp, 50F, which obviously saves a lot of energy in the winter. When I'm going to use it, I turn it up. It still takes a few hours to get to 100F. It would take 4x that with 120V, meaning you'd have to plan a long way in advance. Or you could keep it on a timer, but I don't use mine that regularly.

Another factor is from what I've seen, the 120V ones are limited to very small ones. I think if you're getting one, it doesn't cost all that much more to get a bigger/better one.

If he really wants 120V, then converting that circuit over isn't a big deal.

Reply to
trader_4

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