If the price of crude goes up to $200 a barrel, the price of ehtanol will also
shoot up, and so will the price of vegetable oil. The result will be that the
price of other farm products will also increase. More expensive food for the
West, famine for Asia.
The word is "effects", Steve, "Effects". (snip)
The particulate matter could easily be extracted with a centrifuge.
The silicone oil would mostly hydrolyze in the catalyzed
transesterification process, and wash out with water separation. Any
remainder would exit on the exhaust cycle, and pale to insignificance
to the dirt in the crankcase. The engine oil has a small amount of
silicone oil in it to control foaming anyway, and inevitably some of it
blows by the piston rings into the upper cylinder. No big deal. Also,
some airborne fine silica and silicates get past the air filter anyway,
again, no big deal. It is not that the things you say are untrue, they
are just not significant, and are blown out of proportion by the
propagandizers of the MOB controlled grease collection business.-Jitney
In my area, the restauranteur has to pay to have the oil/grease taken
away, and they take their good easy time about it, often forcing the
operator to store the oil in outside the bin containers. It is a
typical lazy monopoly business because like so much of the waste
hauling industry, it is controlled by organized crime. To hell with
them and their phoney morality/legality.-Jitney
Typical, perhaps, but not 100% of all agrements are like yours are they?
Assuming he is scavenging, how can you make the statements above? How can
you accuse him of receiving stolen property when you don't have a clue what
agreements he may or may not have? I'm amazed at how you have intimate
knowledge of someone else's sources of oil.
If you're going to switch from oil, then you're going to need a new furnace.
If you're considering buying a new furnace, you might as well consider a
new, efficient oil furnace.
The usual alternatives are oil, gas (propane or natural), electric
resistance, electric heat pump, gas heat pump. Heat pumps have the
advantage of providing air conditioning in the summer, but probably will not
be cheaper than an efficient oil furnace when it comes to providing heat in
That last is likely wrong with the higher oil prices.
They do however usually have higher maintenance costs,
and more variable in the sense that the outside conditions
make more difference to the cost of the heat. Not that hard
to have cheap solar for the outside heat collector tho which
can make quite a difference to the cost of the heat.
Heat pumps use electricity, which is usually always the most expensive form of
ebergy over the long term. The pricing situation that exists right now with oil
will either drive electricity prices up or will drop back to a more typical
The largest problem with heat pumps is that they don't work at all when the
outside temp drops below freezing. The system kicks over into resistive heating
then. Brings new meaning to the words "spinning top" when you watch your
electric meter under those conditions.
A relative just installed a geothermal heat pump, which works by using a dozen
or so closed loop wells, sunk 50' under the house. Since ground temps are around
50 degrees year round at that level, frezze up is not a concern. Must ask them
how their electric bill is - they've had it for just over a year now.
You're mixing metaphors here--while electric <resistance> heat may have
been expensive compared to others, the heat pump doesn't use the
electricity as the heat source. Plus, those comparative figures need to
be updated given the cost of oil and gas at current prices. So far,
electricity hasn't been hit as hard.
We had geothermal heat pump in TN and it cut heating costs by over half
compared to the air-exchange heat pump. I recommend them as a worthy
So do air conditioners, yet we don't think they're so extravagent. :)
But to compare costs from one period to those at present and whatever
one projects as where oil/gas prices are going to historical data from
10 or 20 years ago isn't very useful either. I never said a thing about
short term comparisons, only that one needs to reevaluate old saws under
Heat pumps don't use as much electricity as you seem to think. My heat
pump draws just 9 amps at 240 volts when running. Heat pumps don't
manufacture heat, they just move it around, which accounts for their
300% to 500% efficiency.
You are right about the resistive backup heat being expensive, but you
can use any backup heat that you like. On cold nights, I light a fire
in the wood stove, so the heat pump never kicks on. The hearth doesn't
cool until the middle of the next day, when temperatures have normally
risen again. In mild weather, we just let the heat pump do its thing.
I pay more to heat domestic water than I pay to heat my house. A solar
water heater is definitely on my wish list.
This is not quantitative. Let's see. Say you have a source of ground
water heat. Then it would be reasonable to expect a COP of 3 or 4. Fuel
oil will run some $3/100,000btu unless you bought futures. Electricity
at say $.08/kwh would translate to $.70/100,000btu. Resistance heating
If you have the ground water there should be no rollover.
Capital cost for such a system is higher than fueled heat so of course
must be considered.
Well damn, Dan, if I have a geothermal spring in my back yard I won't
have rollover either. Few people have access to ground water so why
even bring it up? As in many places, it's against local ordinances to
drill a well inside the city limits so even if people have the land,
city dwellers can't use the water under it.
Drop that COP down to maybe 1.5 for a high efficiency air exchange
heatpump operating in an ambient in the 30s and you'll be much closer
to reality. Not much better than 1.1 for older units.
Electricity might still win out in some areas but one won't know using
To address another commentator in this thread, no, I don't have to
evaluate the 20 year cost of a heat pump to determine its payback. If
I have multiple sources of heat, I can choose the cheapest for any
given time period. A high efficiency heat pump is probably going to
be the winner in moderate conditions during the spring and fall but
some sort of combustion source will win in the dead of winter.
Traditionally NG but probably propane which is holding steady in price
so far, wood or corn or other biomass this year. Maybe even
electricity. TVA has only increased its rate by 7% which pales
against predicted increases elsewhere.
I'd want to have at least two sources of heat and preferably 3. I
actually have 4, counting the wood stove. Electricity, NG, propane
and wood. I have a NG furnace with a heat pump A coil above it so two
of my sources operate from the same thermostat. Just a matter of
which one I flip the switch on.
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:46:50 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
But almost everybody can have a ground-exchange buried loop....
And, I would expect that one could get permission for closed-loop
water-exchange system in many places that have rules against private
wells for residential irrigation or potable use.
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