Heater boiler problem

[lenona321]

There were several repairs done on the heating boilers (not water heaters) in this building, about two months ago. I had a new T&P (temperature and pressure relief valve?) installed, at their suggestion. (Cost: $294.)

So, now, when I decided to turn on the heat (I have a high tolerance for cold), I can't light the pilot at all. This has NEVER happened, in 20-plus years. In the past, I only had trouble, twice, getting the pilot light to STAY on. The first time, I just waited 12 hours or so before trying again, and the second time (a later year), a worker came out and fixed some wires.

THIS time, I didn't even hear the hiss of gas, when I depressed the pilot button.

More than one source says the problem is likely the thermocouple - too much dust, maybe. I've seen pictures of different kinds, so I will check. Any other theories?

The big question is, if dusting it doesn't help, can I get the same company I mentioned to fix the problem for free, since I suspect they caused it? What other proof would I need?

Thank you.

Lenona.

[trader_4]

It's not the thermocouple. When you press the gas valve to light the pilot, it bypasses the thermocouple. The TC is there to cut off the pilot gas if the thermocouple goes cold, ie the pilot flame went out. That symptom would be the pilot going out randomly after it's lit or going out as soon as you release the valve button. Are you sure you have the gas valve in the proper position? I doubt you're going to get them to fix it for free, as they are going to say it was working when they left and changing the TP relief valve would have nothing to do with this.

Could be:

Gas shut off, not getting to boiler Pilot opening blocked by dirt or insect Debris in gas valve. Gas line failed/clogged, if it goes underground, I've seen them fail, fill with water, but that is rare.

[lenona321]

Well, it's not the only appliance. My gas stove works fine.

There are multiple wheels on the boiler, so I'll have take a closer look for clues. (Is there any other "switch" to look for, besides the electrical one, which is supposed to stay off until the pilot light is lit?)

Btw, it's a condo. The room with all the boilers is in the basement, shut off from the laundry room. It's always toasty in there, despite the vents to the outside.

And, to trader_4, yes, I had the button in the right position - the directions are printed on the boiler, so I wouldn't have turned the arrow to "on" until after I'd used the pilot position successfully.

[lenona321]

I should also mention the boiler is 30 years old or so, but as I said, it very seldom gives me trouble.

There are four old-looking wheels, four switches, and three pipes, from what I could see. NONE of the wheels has any indicators. The front pipe has two wheels. The next one - a skinny one in the back that connects to a horizontal one that runs maybe the whole length of the room - has one wheel and two small, rectangular metal switches that look like tiny levers. The third pipe, in the back, is thick and connects to another horizontal pipe, well over my head. That horizontal pipe has one wheel and two switches - one is an old one that is oval and looks like the head of a key. The other is rectangular and is on the newish hydronic expansion tank.

I also tried comparing the positions of those four switches to the ones on the other 15 or so boilers in the room. Trouble is, many of them seem to be in multiple positions. (I doubt anyone else here would have chosen to keep the heat off until now.) Some are in the same positions mine are.

I suppose I could send a photo to one of the contractors who came here and ask if one of the switches should be turned. Obviously, if they forgot to turn a valve back on during the fall inspection, I wouldn't want to pay them to come back and do three seconds of work.

[lenona321]

Things are getting weirder by the minute...

Thanks to you, I found what looks like a fifth switch, just two feet or so above the floor, on a horizontal pipe that runs directly in. It's tiny, old, metallic and dusty (not colored). It's also set perpendicular to the pipe. (All the other boilers have that tiny switch set parallel to the pipe.)

Trouble is, strong as I am, I can't budge it with my fingers. It's not even quite clear whether it's SUPPOSED to be movable, so I'm not going to risk breaking it.

[lenona321]

No, that wouldn't be it. I do turn off the pilot light in March, according to the printed directions, but I never touch any valves, since they don't come with directions. I'm the only one who handles the boiler aside from the inspection crew; they only come in the fall, and while they sometimes turn on the pilot light and leave it on, they have never turned valves off before now.

[Lenona]

Yes, it does. So we're getting somewhere.

3/4" long, 1/2" high.

[Lenona]

Yes, it's about that thick. I'll try tomorrow morning - it's late. Thanks again.

[trader_4]

Again, it's not a switch thing. The only thing needed for the pilot light to have gas going out of it is a supply of gas, pushing the gas valve knob with it in the pilot lighting position and a pilot light tube that is not clogged with a insect, debris, etc. It does not require anything to do with electricity.

[trader_4]

I missed that. In which case it's time she called a pro before something bad happens. Though from that last post it sounds like she might have found the gas valve for the boiler and it's off. But the description of it being "tiny" doesn't fit and you would think that if was turned off by the service guys recently it would not be dusty, but who knows. If it is off, it's very likely done intentionally, either by the service guy so he'd get a call back or someone else. I don't see how a service visit on a boiler winds up ending with the gas valve off. You'd have it on to test it and you'd have it on until it's running normally, etc. No reason to turn it off after that, unless it's to save a buck on gas for the pilot over the summer. Seems odd that a service guy would do that though, unless he's aiming for a call back. Another thing, this appears to be a multi-family building, is she the only person involved with this boiler? Maybe somebody else disconnected a gas pipe and that's why the valve is turned off. Who knows. I suppose she could post some pics.

[trader_4]

A gas valve on a boiler feed is "tiny"?

[Anonymous]

Could it be like one of these in Google Images ?

[Lenona]

Yes, thank you! I found my pliers - and they were definitely needed. I'd say the knob is between 1/4" and 1/2" thick. I still had to wait a while before I could light the pilot, but once I did, It wasn't long before my room was comfortable again. (I keep the thermostat at 60 F, typically, or even lower.)

Guess what else? The electric switch was on as well, when I went down the first time. Of course, as the directions say, it should be off when the pilot light is off. (I'll definitely be checking what things look like, before and after inspections, from now on!)

Lenona.

[Lenona]

It's similar to the one in the second photo, here.

[Lenona]

Btw, here's a tip that I suspect is important. If you have plants that can't be kept well away from the baseboard heaters, be sure to vacuum out the dead leaves, regularly! I did that before I went to turn on the pilot. Luckily for me, the leaves (from an umbrella plant) are large enough to be seen easily.

[Lenona]

I emailed the office manager at that company on the 25th. Here's what she and I said to each other:

OM: "Just looked though the notes from the tech that serviced and this was the way he found the unit during service so it left it that way. Also just so you are aware it is not recommended that this valve be shut off in the future."

Me: "Was that during the T&P replacement, or the previous (annual) inspection, or both? Just checking. (I never touch the valves, since they don't come with printed instructions, unlike the pilot light...)"

OM: "Both."

(end)

Now THAT'S weird.