Heat pumps much better now?

[micky]

Have heat pumps improved much in the last 30 years, wrt to heating a home in Baltimore?

I was under the impresssion that the limiting factor is often the outside temperature, and if it's not over 45 or 40 or 35 or 30 (I forget which), that it's hard to extract enough heat to keep a place warm.

And that since it's colder than that a lot here, the supplemental electric heat will go on and that's much more expensive.

The salesman today, called by them a saleman, tells me that things have improved a lot in 30 years and it can heat the house. But I don't see how you can change the laws of physics.

[Dean Hoffman]

Research ground source heat pump.

[Ralph Mowery]

Over the years the heat pumps have became more efficent. I have not checked it out, but maybe things like larger outside units to collect more heat from the air. Look at the HPSF ratings for the heat pumps. The units that operate in the open air usually work well to about 30 deg F. From around 25 to 30 deg F they are ok. Much below 25 deg they go down hill fast, or should say the operating cost go way up .

They also have a SEER rating for the air condition cooling.

[Roger Oveur]

Yah, the new ones are amazing and they work great until the warranty expires.  Ten minutes later the coils start leaking and the refrigerant leaks out.

[trader_4]

They have improved, just like today a 14 SEER AC is the lowest you can buy where 30 years ago, 10 was common. How cost effective they are as always depends on the cost of electricity, cost of alternative fuels and climate. I can tell you I've never seen an air sourced system here in coastal NJ, which isn't all that cold. I have heard of ground sourced, which Dean mentioned, but I think when you look at the cost of the install, that's a losing proposition if you have nat gas available.

[Dean Hoffman]

A little information:

[Clare Snyder]

Ground source works a lot better than air source

[Ed Pawlowski]

My sister had one in her house in NJ. Worked OK but she moved from it

10 years ago so I have no details.

Mine here in FL works great but the lowest temperature I've seen in two winters is 38 degrees. I have a well insulated house and mild winter climate. Winter electric bill was only $40. I have no supplemental heat and don't need it here.

I'd look at other options if you have to replace your present system but it may be a good option. You mentionel oil heating in another thread. If you have to replace an old oil burner check out

They have some good systems and cut my oil use in CT by 40%. It paid for itself in oil savings.

[micky]

Yes. There is no gas here. I was going to postpone a new furnace, but I shouldn't buy AC without considering a heatpump at the same time.

It looks good but constantly talks about unlimited showers and boilers. That's for hot water heat, right? Not forced air.

[Todesco]

11 years ago I build this house and had the builder install the best, at the time, HP. The HVAC talked me into spending about $200 more for an Amana unit, instead of a Goodman. Both are built in the same factory. The Amana has a lifetime replacement warranty on the entire outside unit. All for $200!

[trader_4]

What are the details of that warranty? Will they replace it with an equivalent, no pro rating, even if there is no manufacturing defect? If so, that would be a great warranty.

[micky]

Now you've confused me. Both build in same factory sounds like you think they're the same and not worth more, but the last line makes it sound like you think Amana is worth the extra 200.

BTW, I think Goodman was bought by Dalton and now is called Dalton???

[Ed Pawlowski]

Built in the same factory does not mean they are identical, though for the most part they probably are. I've seen HVAC units built with the only change being the sticker with brand name, but I've also seen them with minor changes in features.

[dpb]

...

That's the "Daikan" Group that is the parent, not Dalton.

Goodman bought Amana in 1997, then sold the appliance business unit to Maytag in 2001 keeping the Amana HVAC brand.

--

[trader_4]

He made it clear. For $200 he got a lifetime warranty. What exactly that covers IDK, but assuming it's something reasonable, it would be worth $200.

[Clare Snyder]

And sometimes the minor feature, or lack thereof, is what makes or breaks the unit. Othertimes the sheet metal is all the 2 brands share - - - - Different burners, different heat exchangers, different fans, different controllers - or any combination of the above. On others everything is the same EXCEPT the sheet metal.

[micky]

I should have thought of this sooner. Instead or replacing the oil heat/AC with new AC and, later, oil heat, how about adding a heat pump and using the current oil furnace for the supplemental heat?

Won't the combination of elecricity and oil be cheaper than all the oil I'm using now?

Any downside?

HIgher cost for heat pump but won't' it still be worth it.

[trader_4]

I would guess that you'd have a hard time finding someone to piggyback a new heat pump on to an old oil furnace not meant to be used with it for several reasons.

[micky]

The guys who were here today, from an AC company with 50 years experience, suggested it.

[micky]

I remember that one of them had 35 years experience.