Do you know how to turn _off_ (or "pause" in Google parlance) this
seemingly long-term and apparently permanent receipt scanning of your
If you're not aware of what's going on, I post this detailed example so
that you can be advised that Google apparently keeps a _separate_ log of
all digital receipts emailed to your GMail account, which is _separate_
from the normal privacy stuff that you can typically "pause" for privacy.
AFAIK, this is where your normal privacy stuff is set for Gmail accounts:
This is the "special" scanning done of _all_ your tools/parts receipts:
As far as I can tell, there's no way to turn this scanning off, where,
together, we can ascertain exactly _what_ Google considers the definition
of a "receipt", where the examples I found in _my_ email appear to include
_free_ stuff, and warranty registration cards, etc.
Since Usenet is a potluck picnic where adults strive to bring something of
value to the picnic table, I ask that you look at what is scanned in _your_
receipt cache, and report back to us so as to edify us of _other_ types of
"receipts" you find - where I will do my part by showing below the types of
things Google considers a "receipt" for this scanning & logging purpose.
Also, if you have special skills in the knowledge of _where_ we can
permanently turn this "receipt" scanning off, that would be helpful, since,
AFAICT, the best you can do, as shown here for an electronics purchase, as
far as I can tell at this point, is to completely delete the original
One problem is that this scanning includes even _free_ electronics, tools,
and parts... for example, this femtocell cellular tower that my carrier
lent to me, at no cost, which is attached to my router to project as its
own micro tower (and my cellular repeater, which is another unit that the
carrier lent me, for free, since I'm thousands of feet on the top of a
mountain overlooking Silicon Valley, where my home is large & therefore
requires multiple cellular mini towers)
Many of us are forced to purchase specialty electronics tools online, such
as is shown in this receipt for BMW factory & dealer diagnostic tools from
China, which, by the way, you can't obtain _except_ online, because this is
the both modified (i.e., hacked) versions of BMW coding software, and the
exact _same_ software that both the factory in Germany and the local
dealers use, including the ability to program the score of ECUs in the
bimmer (e.g.,EDIABAS, INPA, NCSExpert, NCS Dummies, EasyDIS, DIS/GT1 &
Since I do all my own mechanical work, I learned to comprehend tire specs
so that I can purchase, online, the best tires possible, where I then have
them ship those tires to my home so that I can match mount and balance them
at my own convenience in my own garage, knowing the job is done perfectly
(you don't even want to know how many times tire shops cut corners in the
interest of "their" time and expense, when they are mounting & balancing
Now, even Google knows that I save tons of money buying automotive
maintenance items online, where, for example, I got 6 better-than-OEM spec
tires for less than $100 each, match mounted, balanced, & installed.
Google knows you've eliminated the middleman, for example, where I found
_errors_ in the printed specs for the government-mandated material,
manufacturer, date, and cold/hot friction codes stamped on brake pads &
shoes, such that the manufacturer of these friction materials appreciated
talking to me enough to ask the warehouse to give me a discount on order
for brake pads and shoes, which now Google keeps track of:
Outside of specialty electronics, tools, and automotive parts direct from
the manufacturer that you can only get on the net, here's a receipt for an
Amazon gift order from years ago, whom I'm sure many people buy from:
Here's a receipt for clothing accessories bought from Nordstrom's:
There's even a receipt containing all my details when I filled out a
tire-warranty registration card online with tire serial numbers:
Unfortunately, I don't know yet how _turning off_ scanning is possible.
o Do you?
NOTE: Uesnet is a potluck picnic, where everyone proves their value added,
where jokes about deleting Google aren't helpful - but where advice for
On Sat, 18 May 2019 16:28:15 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
REAL SIMPLE solution. Do NOT use G-Mail or ANY other FREE e-mail
NOTHING is FREE. You pay for your FREE e-mail service by providing
Google or other providers with DATA and giving up all FREEDOM.
DON'T USE GOOGLE. I use GOOGLE search engine, but I NEVER uses a
If you dance with the devil - - - - (Jm M Smith) or (The Dictionary
of Modern Proverbs) too different results - Or the similar (Lie with
the devil" quote from the 1972 Andrew Sinclair novel Magog,
Look up the Sinclair "magog" quote under "lie with the devil"
On Sat, 18 May 2019 13:04:48 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
You and I go way back, where you help us solve problems that most people
can't even fathom the solution to, since the solution requires brains that
you have, but which most others who post don't have.
Let's _solve_ this problem the best way we can
o By understanding the problem set - and then the solution that works.
For example, we've already solved, rather easily it turns out, all Google
spying on the Android newsgroup, where we can eliminate google without even
having to resort to being root.
We solved that problem simply by working together and not giving up when
the electronic solution became difficult.
WE can do that for this problem too, IMHO.
o Starting with defining the problem set.
We _need_ email, right?
o So we have to have an email account, right?
And, if we want stuff such as that BMW factory software so that we can
diagnose, fix, and re-program the score of ECUs in a typical bimmer, we
have to get that software online, right (because BMW doesn't sell it).
Also, if we buy tires online to get the best tire at the best price, we end
up getting the registration receipt online also. Likewise, if we get free
electronics like my femtocell & repeaters from my carrier, _they_ send
those confirmation emails online - whether I like it or not.
*Who _knew_ that these things are _all_ saved _separately_ by Google?*<https://myaccount.google.com/purchases
That is, they're NOT saved in the "normal" place to control such things:
Hence, there are multiple facets of this thread, intended to solve the
stated problem set, as always, with the combined help of the tribe:
The main questions asked in the discovery phase are:
1. What do you find in your account that Google considers a receipt?
2. Is there any other way to "pause" this other than to delete the email?
Once we answer those questions, more detailed questions can be solved:
3. What's the best alternative to Gmail known today?
4. Is there an automated way to locally intercept & reattach receipts
If you (or anyone else) knows of the BEST alternative email to Gmail, let's
discuss that - because it's a potential viable solution to the problem set.
If there's a clever electronic way to intercept our own emails locally,
recognizing what Google considers a "receipt" (bearing in mind Google's
interpretation clearly includes free stuff & registration cards)?
For example, maybe we can solve the problem by:
o Figuring out what Google triggers as a "receipt"
o Set our _own_ triggers (e.g., with procmail) to recognize the receipt
o Collect, and locally re-scan that receipt & send as an attachment
There is a problem - and there is a solution.
o If we say "don't use Gmail" then we need an alternative mail service.
What's the most viable alternative email service that people know of?
On Sat, 18 May 2019 17:30:34 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
Doesn't meen youhave to "sell your soul" to Google to get e-mail.
Same reason I will NEVER use Chrome as a browser. Not a big fan of
Android either for the same reason. When you use ANY Google service or
product, you are putting everything you do on view to Google - who
will sell you to the highest (or any) bidder.
ANyone whoknows anything about Google knew that 5 years or more ago.
Nothing -= as I don't USE Google
Don't "start" it inthe first place. Don't let Google see what you are
doing and they can't save it.
Best? Your own private email server - locked down like Fort Knox.
Acceptable? What does your ISP use? Yahoo and MegaMailServers are two
relatively reputable services contracted by many ISPs. Others have
their own in-house mail servers - like TechSavvy . Axigen is
another.. If you want to "dance with a different devil" - one that is
somewhat more benign than google, youcan use outlook.com (formerly
Windows Live Mail and Hotmail) or Mail.com, or even ProtonMail or
Tutanota (which are fully encrypted, apparently) or Yandex? or ZOHO?
or GMX, or even AOL Mail? There are other (paid) services like
AuthSMTP, and FastMail. AppRiver is another excellent paid service
with many security options. With many ov these you will need to
register a domain which is a separate expense (about $10 a year, +/-)
Not if they come to you through Google. Do you understand how e-mail
works? Things like SMTP. MAPI, IMAP, POP, and all that complex stuff?
Do you know the difference between a mailserver and an e-mail client?
You can use Mail2Web.com as your webmail if your ISP does not provide
an interface like Horde or Roundcube or SquirrelMail (most do)
On Sat, 18 May 2019 15:58:18 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
Agreed on the fact there's no need to "sell your soul" to Google.
I saw the purposefully helpful suggestion from rbowman of Proton, which
I've tested in the past, but I don't remember why I didn't keep it so I'll
try anew as if there was a better solution, I'd seek it out - although -
sometimes the "fancy" tools are no better in the end than the
tried-and-true basic boring tools.
LATER EDIT: I also saw your purposefully helpful suggestions of alternative
Email services other than Gmail below! (Thanks - I'll test them out.)
No disagreement here on Chrome.
Chrome is banned from my systems, where there are _plenty_ of privacy based
Chromium-based browsers, e.g., Epic or Opera on Windows, both of which
claim to be a free VPN but which are both really encrypted web-based
proxies. (And there's Brave, which is a tor-by-tab enabled browser.)
And non-Chromium-based privacy browsers too (e.g., TBB).
Be careful here, as most people, IMHO, who use iOS, are highly influenced
by bullshit marketing, as the sad fact is and always was that iOS has very
little of the privacy that Android has, where most people only know the
cherry-picked examples that some marketing organization feeds them; but not
the full factual details about privacy.
For example, it's _easy_ to remove almost all Google privacy intrusions on
Android while it's impossible to have the same kind of privacy on iOS.
We have a loooooooong very detailed discussion of this easily proven fact
on the smartphone ngs, so I won't belabor the issue here other than to say
anyone who feels iOS is somehow (magically?) more private than Android,
doesn't know either system to _any_ level of comprehension.
All they know is marketing bullshit.
See factual details here:
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum /#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY> > When you use ANY Google service or
This is true, IMHO, that Google sees everything you let them see.
Just like I stated the fact is that you can easily almost completely
eliminate Google from Android without _any_ loss of functionality, we
_should_ be able to eliminate this specific offshoot separate privacy hive
of our stored receipts.
o Is there any free FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you
can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
What we need is a similar solution of eliminating this receipt hive.
Obviously, it's Google's fault for not putting this receipt hive along with
the other privacy hives which are able to be "paused".
Clearly, one short-term workaround, staying within the Gmail ecosystem, is
to print the emailed receipt to a format which Google doesn't scan (e.g.,
PDF or JPEG), and then reattach that receipt to an email (if you wish to
store it in your Google account).
The main problem with the short-term solutions, such as printing to PDF and
saving the PDF'd receipt in a folder on your system, is that _new_ receipts
will _still_ get archived - since I couldn't find a way to "pause" this
One potential permanent solution might be a local filter, such as a
procmail server for example, which automatically re-creates a local email
that is in an image format, and hence less likely to be scanned by Google.
Or, as rbowman suggested, a better freeware email solution, perhaps
o Open source
o Works with any MUA
o Swiss privacy laws
o End-to-end encryption
o No personal information or even IP addresses logged
I will set this up and test and write back the results on the related
platform ngs, so that everyone benefits from the efforts of others bringing
value to the Usenet potluck picnic.
Did you _really_ know that Google keeps the receipts _separately?_
o And, did you know it's not part of the _normal_ privacy stuff?
o I find that hard to believe - but it _could_ be true.
(I'm not going to belabor whether you knew or not.)
Nonetheless, even if you did know about it, there's no mention from you in
the past that you noted of how to solve the problem - so - it doesn't help
to know about it - but I do see that you kindly provided potential
solutions below - which is great added value to the Usenet picnic to share.
NOTE: Proton Mail, suggested by rbowman, seems like a decent choice, where
I see you provided alternatives, which I will test out.
I think you _still_ need IP address protection if you're setting up
sendmail at home, don't you?
I guess you could automate every sendmail batch request to include a
connection to VPN - which should work. And, there's DDNS if you don't have
a static IP address, for example.
If folks have working scripts, that's what we should be discussing then, as
it's not rocket science to set up a sendmail server - but - the IP address
protection is the problem.
Hehhehheh... my ISP?
o My situation is not like most since I get my Internet via an antenna.
Most people though don't live on a mountaintop, so they probably have a
cable (and pipes) which feed their homes, so for _them_, that's a
potentially viable solution.
Ah! Now that's value to be brought to the potluck picnic to share!
These are all nice starting suggestions for _replacement_ email service:
o <https://protonmail.com/ free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://www.axigen.com/ mail & calendar, (business solution)
o <https://teksavvy.com/services/ seems to be an ISP???
o <https://tutanota.com/ OSS, encryption, all platforms, free, ad free
o <https://mail.yandex.com/ 10GB storage, free?, no personal information
o <https://www.zoho.com/mail/ free, requires personal information
o <https://www.gmx.com/mail/ free, requires personal information,
Always keeping to the spirit of a general purpose solution, these appear
upon the first pass to be free and they appear, on just the first skim of
the main web page, to not log your IP address or ask (or require) personal
information during the sign-up process:
o <https://protonmail.com/ free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://tutanota.com/ free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://mail.yandex.com/ free?, no private info, IP logs?
Thanks for the payware solutions, where some above seemed to be payware
also (at least upon initial inspection), but where payware instantly
relegates the solution to a non-general solution - where the cost of
freeware is in the immense testing involved - while the prelimary to
payware is the freeware.
Once we know what the freeware is capable of, then and only then do we have
the information necessary to evaluate our payware needs.
That's the classic two-step process to using payware, where, almost always,
the freeware does not only what the payware does, but often _more_ than the
payware does - but each functionality situation is different.
I cut my teeth on computers during the days of the punched card and IBM
JCL, where the IBM 1130 and PDP 11 was something I used in college, and
then I worked on a variety of DEC and Masscomp boxes until Sun took over
(and died), so, um, yeah, I know that stuff (I wrote hundreds of procmail
filters, for example, in the days when we actually _complained_ to the
server admin if we received a spam, and we used our actual email addresses
in tin or rn).
Um... yes. MUA is the old term, as I'm sure you're aware of (also MTA).
[Then there's LDA and MDA, but let's not go into all these TLAs.]
o Plain old "mailx" was what I used on Linux for my "client"
o Then Windows & the Mac had Eudora for the longest time as the "client"
Well before Google existed.
In the olden days, with our ISPs, we had to get these settings:
o We started with pop3 server settings & smtp server credentials
o Then we moved to imap4 (which didn't download the mail locally)
o And, until AT&T joined up with Cuomo, we had the ISP's nntp server:port
My ISP is a WISP with about 50 customers locally.
o We do our own antenna installs and self-help for the neighbors
Mostly we use powerful WiFi radios, of which I have a half dozen scattered
about - here's a shot I took just now of just one corner of the basement of
my house, for example
[In that photo is also the cellular repeater, a wired repeater, and a few
powerful 2.4GHz & 5GHz transceivers, not all of which are in current use).
While that's just a half dozen radios, I have at least a dozen of them
scattered about as access points and to connect with the WISP & to
neighbors a few miles away, as we pass our Internet back and forth over
Fresnel zones and up the steep mountainside to paint the deep canyons
All we get from the ISP is the Internet - where that's all we need.
I'm not sure what you mean by "mail2web" though, as there seem to be a few
outfits using that name, e.g.,
And, for Horde, vs Roundcute vs SquirrelMail, we can refer to this review:
o Horde webmail - full suite of feaures
o Roundcube webmail - most populare - but with limited features
o Squirrelmail webmail - limited functionality but easy to use (died 4/2018)
And where all apparently require a "cpanel account".
But a web browser is, by most accounts, an horrific way to obtain email,
where a dedicated MUA is the way to go, IMHO - but that's a different
In summary, you've brought value to share at the Potluck Picnic that is
Usenet, where the first task following up on your purposefully helpful post
is to explore the viable freeware mail services which can _replace_ google
email functionality as a global and general solution for everyone on all
Thanks for bringing something of value to the Usenet potluck picnic.
There's plenty of general use for users to followup with more details based
on their adding of their valuable experience to the Usenet potluck!
On Sat, 18 May 2019 21:28:23 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
No fan of the "fruit" system either - - - - -
BULLSHIT. Android IS Google. It is a "free" operating system provided
to manufacturers to provide a "data trap" for all their users. You
can no more take Google out od Android thanyou can remove GM from
You don't get it. It's not the google "mail agent" that causes the
trouible it's the server. If it was just the agent you could solve it
by fetchingthe mail with outlook instead of the g-mail web client.
Except you are getting your mail FROM and THROUGH google - it's IN
google before you can access it unless you have a sniffer on every
ProtonMail IS one option I suggested - which totally eliminates
Gppgle from thegame - and changes your email address.
I knew they monitor and harvest EVERY BIT of "data" they think they
can make a peso from - and they do it in such a way it is transparent
to you the user, and virtually impossible to totally eliminate
I've been 30 years in the computer business - 25 years involved with
internet hosting and related business.
never been a problem for me, because I've been "too smart" to fall
for Google's "sucker punch"
Didn't say "at home" My web server is locked down in a vault in
Vancouver - along with my mail sever.
Just set up your own Microsofr Exchange server
Yes - through an ISP.
WHo provides the signal to your antenna? Who do you send the cheque
to???? It's not being trapped free from the rther!!!!!!
If they have any level of security they will log something.
You NEED that today too if you are going to have a functional,
secure. REAL emailservice.
No, there is only ONE "mail2web.com" - which is EXACTLY what I
recommended to you.
No, you don't need a c-panel account. You can have a Plesk account
to. I'm sure there are other server front-ends that they work with
I use Microsoft Office Outlook. I can still access my e-mail remotrly
from any machine using Horde.
I have several email accounts on my hosted domain, as well as on my
ISP account (Rogers.com - which uses a Yahoo mail server) - and I
access them all through Outlook.
The Amazon Fire tablets do a good job of taking Google out of the
picture. In fact without rooting the device you can get to the Play Store.
otoh the B&N Nook isn't as much of a mod. One of the few purchases that
ever showed up on my Google account was when B&N offered a free download
of the Mueller report when it was released.
No, I did not read the damn thing. My boredom level peaked out after 40
On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:41:52 -0600, rbowman wrote:
Thanks for that additional subtopic information about privacy on Android.
You likely know this, but I posit that there's no reason you need the
Google Play store on _any_ Android phone or tablet.
o Is there any FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you
can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
I use the example of a kid not recognizing his dad when he's dressed as
"Dr. John Smith", while the kid only recognizes his dad when he's dressed
as "Daddy" in slippers and pajamas.
Underneath the GUI, it's the _same_ stuff exactly.
It's the same with YouTube and NewPipe, where, underneath the GUI, it's the
exact same videos. <https://newpipe.schabi.org/
But without Google knowing who you are.
In summary, I posit there is absolutely no reason for a Google Account on
Android - which - in and of itself - eliminates a LOT of the spying.
Then, with judicious settings, I posit you can eliminate the rest of the
spying (e.g., reporting your neighbor's wifi to Google).
Since I love to IMPROVE my privacy - I CHALLENGE anyone to prove me wrong.
o Tell me how I haven't eliminated Google spying on my unrooted phoen?
On Sun, 19 May 2019 06:01:36 -0400, Justin Trudeau wrote:
This is true, where the rule I follow is simple:
o Facts first, and then adult rational logic based on those facts.
We have a thread on how to do what you say in c.m.a, but, unfortunately, it
requires rooting to load that custom ROM (plus the right phone).
o Privacy from Google/analytics/tracking with Lineage OS + microG
The fact is, I claim to have (almost?) eliminated Google, sans rooting.
o Did I?
o In Nougat, which google apps can we safely DISABLE?
I'm never afraid of facts though - so if you know of ANYHTING that I
missed, then just let me know what it is.
o What is the easiest way to spoof the GSF Google Services Framework ID -
and is it being tracked)?
I think most people own completely imaginary belief systems on Andrloid privacy
o So they will simply say it can't be done
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities
between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
But I believe, not only can it be done - but it's EASY to do.
o You just have to know what steps to take
o What are the first things you do to set up a new Android Nougat phone?
And I believe I've taken ALL the known steps.
o Have I?
The only way to tell for sure, is to ask what you think I missed.
o What do you know of that I missed to divorce my phone from Google?
On Sun, 19 May 2019 06:01:36 -0400, Justin Trudeau
en sourse and free - yes - BUT it is still owned and controlled by
Google division of Alphabet Inc.
Note in particular "Google hasnt historically charged for Android
and its apps because of the revenue brought in through Chrome and
search. But splitting them up changes the equation, so companies will
now find themselves paying for things like the Play Store that we
generally consider to be core parts of Android, but are in reality
It may not remain free forever.
That's not entirely accurate. There was a company, Android Inc. that
Google bought and they have done most of the development. A quibble but
I would say others have their own derivative of Android.
There has been an ongoing suit by Oracle that Google violated its
patents by using Java:
Google has filed a writ with the Supreme Court.
On Sat, 18 May 2019 22:01:24 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:
You're clearly intelligent and you clearly care about your credibility
o As am I, and as do I
I believe I've "almost" eliminated Google spying on my non-rooted phone
o Do you have evidence that I have not eliminated that spying?
o What are the common settings to change on an Android 7.0 Nougat phone
On this one topic, you must agree an un-rooted android phone works just
fine without _any_ Google account, right?
o HINT: I don't have a google account on my un-rooted Android phone
o How does the default "Google Account" on an Android phone benefit you?
Also, an Android phone works just fine after you turn off all the known
settings that are related to Google spying, right?
o HINT: I have all that stuff turned off that is known about
o What else do we need to do in order to turn OFF reporting to Google my
neighbor's wifi access points?
In addition, it's easily possible to load only GSF-free apps, right?
o GSF independent free, ad free, email programs for Android on Google Play
In summary, we're both intelligent and we both care about our credibility,
where we both know that facts aren't only as simple as simple-minded people
like Trader can comprehend - but that facts come in many complexities.
Still - to my knowledge, I've _eliminated_ Google spying from my non-root
phone,.where those threads listed above are only examples of the _many_
steps I've taken to accomplish that worthy goal.
My question to you is simple - just as any question of fact is simple.
o What do you think I missed that makes you believe you can't do what I
"claim" to have done?
NOTE: I may or may not be correct in my claim - but my claim is based on
the facts that I have turned off EVERYTHING that I know about with regard
to Google spying - and I did it without rooting the phone.
I'm never afraid of facts because my belief system is bolstered by facts.
o Tell me what Google spys on me with my phone that I may have missed?
If you can't name anything I potentially missed, then what does that tell
On Sun, 19 May 2019 20:34:19 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
No idea. Never used an Android phone. I DO have an android tablet - I
downloaded the "torque" app on it and confirmed it connects to the
bluetooth OBD@ dongle, and that it connected to both my truck and my
old Taurus. Haven't had it out of the box since.
All I know is if I don't use a g-mail account, and I don't log into a
google account, they got nothing on me - and I'm just as happy not
ever having to use their product. Like many people have nouse for
Microsoft, Ihave no use for Google (otherthan their search engine)
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