In an older house it is possible that the water pipes were used for the ground and that the pipes are in fact still the one and only ground on the premises. If that is the case it will be necessary to install a code-approved ground when replacing the pipes
Yes pay attention to that. There are lots of houses with plenty of gotchas like that, espcially ones built in the 50's and 60's where grounding was first becoming standard and desirable. My house was a virtual deathtrap of grounds to water pipes - when the actual grounding was installed every and all grounds unaccounted for were clipped by the electrican so as to rule out fault loops and shock hazards.
Oh, you are so wrong about what you say. Never did I say unions cause poor quality pipes. I have nothing against making a good wage and good benefits. Tradesmen deserve a good wage.
What I did say was unions do not like to change and modernize. I've worked in many areas where the unions are strong. It is not just about wages, but they can resist change if less labor is involved. I've seen it up close and personal in the Philadelphia area. I've seen unions destroy some very good small businesses also.
Unions were great for the working man back in the 30's and 40's and even into the 50's. But around the mid 60's they started to go to hell. Yes, most unions today suck. Some of the smart ones are now changing and realizing they must work with businesses to create jobs and train skilled workers, not just demand more benefits. They must EARN them. I've been involved with union negotiations and I've seen the leadership sell out the employees for their personal gain.
"Cheaper" and "faster" aren't _necessarily_ synonymous w/ "better".
I doubt Sacramento Dave has any real data to back up the contention but is more stating an opinion/prejudice (which in some ways as noted below I share).
The one thing against PEX at this point imo is that it doesn't have the history behind it yet. We'll know in 20, 30, 50, 100 years how good it _really_ is. Personally, my expectation is it won't be as durable for the long run, but that's just one guy's guess. I have a prejudice against it because it just looks cheap in my eye but that has absolutely nothing to do w/ it's actual quality as a plumbing system.
And there's nothing wrong with that method of choosing what you use. I agree with you, I feel that PEX does in fact look cheap, chintzy, and half-assed but I'm still using it because it is so much easier to install.
The way I look at it, if the PEX I've installed lasts 20 years - which I think is reasonable, it will still be a snap to correct it. How much time does it take to install - it takes me less time to get over my fear of "what lurks in the crawlspace" than it does to install it - an hour if I'm feeling particularly jumpy? Will copper survive an earthquake? Quite possibly not, PEX will no problem if done right. Earthquakes are not uncommon where I live.
For those experienced working with copper you all might feel the exact same way. But I'm not experienced with copper, I'd have it installed then spend the next day tryinig in vain to close all the leaky joints because the silver solder didn't flow well. Or I'd spend the next week talking to the insurance agent on why I burned my house down with a propane torch.
So unless I have about 1000+ to pay a plumber to do the job right, I do the same thing every other homeowner does and spend 75 bucks and install PEX (plus the cost of the crimper - if needed).
It's all a matter of what you are more comfortable with. As for my own house. Copper from the meter to the first junction - PEX there on in.
I have fiberglass insulation in my crawl space, should I use copper as I would have to sweat most of the joints very near the fiberglass?
Fiberglass, I'm sure isn't flammable, just not sure if it's a good idea.
Copper is $7 for 1/2" x 8ft at home depot here in Kansas! PEX is 50ft x 1/2" for $25 here, and the tool is a rental for $10 a day at my local hardware store.
Use what suits the job best. Sweating the joint is simple enough. Just put a small piece of drywall between the joint and the fiberglass to hold it away.
it's 10 bucks for 1/2" copper M grade here, and it's 10 feet long.
That's $1 per foot or so for grade M, 1/2" copper. 3/4" pex is about $50 at HomeDepot for 100 feet.... easier to install, cheaper and you don't even have to have a truck to get it home.
And I only risk flooding my house by being a moron, rather than burning it down by trying to sweat all those pipes.
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