I just got my first gas bill after a full month of use on my new
On the bill they put a comparison of usage from the present date and
compare it to last year.
Fortunately for the sake of comparison the temp this year averaged one
degree colder than last year but the usage was only 85% as much.
Not only that, since my wife hates the cold, I told her we could keep
the temp, in the house a few degrees warmer at night.
I used to turn it down to 62F and now I just turn it down to 64 or 65
House is 1900 sq ft but has a basement that I keep slightly heated.
Average temp 15F
total gas charges including surcharges $210
Something I can actually afford
Got my $150 energy rebate check a few days ago
Thanks for the good news, hope someone is able
to afford some thing. I signed up with Energetix
a couple years ago, when the door to door guy
promised it would be cheaper. After hearing radio
ads for Noco, I went online and made some calls.
Find out for Dec, I could have spent #103 less
if I had Noco. I put in for switch, but they
can only do that at meter reads, two months from
now. So, please compare energy provider prices
if you have a choice in your area.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 06:49:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
Natural gas prices on the spot market up here have only very
occaisionally exceded contract prices, while contract prices have
always anticipated increases. I buy my gas direct from Union Gas here
in Ontario - the door to door buys buy the gas from Union Gas too, and
they have to pay the door-to-door goons their comission as well as pay
their stockholders or owners a fat profit. You can be sure they won't
be loosing money - so their price HAS to be higher.
If you want price security you have top pay for it.
On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 5:42:18 PM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I think what the companies who guarantee and lock in the price for
customers are doing is hedging it on the futures markets. By doing
that, they can lock in the prices for a year and beyond. That works
fine if the price later goes up, customers will be happy, the company
makes money, etc. But if prices go down sharply, IDK what happens,
because you would think a lot of customers would bail, switch suppliers
and IDK how the company could prevent it, collect, etc. IDK what
the typical contract for locking in even says about any of that.
If you use enough gas, you could hedge on the futures markets yourself,
it's easy to do. But even with the mini contracts, it would be about
$7K worth of nat gas per contract. That would work for a larger business,
apartment buildings, but not for residential.
Many contracts prevent you from bailing. They have you locked unless
you are going to hook your gas main to a different pipe someplace. You
really have to read what you sign up for as some switch to variable
rates. Same gas going into the pipe, but the so called gas sellers
bill according to your meter. Quite the scam
Another mine field. They like to contract for a specific amount of
gas. Go over and you pay a higher rate. Go under and you pay a
higher rate. How much gas will you use in each month of the next two
years? Have a very good and very bad month of business and you pay a
penalty. I can predict two weeks ahead, but not much more the way our
business is. .
They have you locked in that you can't even change to a different
fuel - and here in Ontario before electricity market was deregulated,
when you signed up for fixed price gas (for 5 years) you were also
compelled to deal with them for your electricity "if and when the
market was de-regulated"
Contract gas over the last 8 years or so has been something like 15%
more than spot market gas. That doesn't ean your bill is 15% more
because you still pay the same "storage and delivery" fees, which are
paid to your local gas supplier (union gas in waterloo, Kitchener
Public Utilities in Kitchener) Kitchener was buying "contract gas" to
have a predictable price structure and Kitchener customers paid 90
percent more for the gas portion of their bill last year than Union
Gas customers in Waterloo, due to 2009 gas contracts entered into by
the city utility.
Spot price in Jan 2010 was about $5.75US per million BTU, and $2.00
US in April 2012. In Sept 2014 it was about $2.60US. There was a
short spike in July 2014 to close to $6.00 US. Most of the 2009
contracts would have been for the $6.50 per million BTU range, while
the 4 year average spot price was closer to $3.50.
I paid under $750 per year average for my gas bill in Waterloo at
spot rate. Across the municipal boundary in Kitchener the same gas
bill would have been over $1000. If I had signed a contract with
Direct Energy in 2009 my 2014 gas bill would have been $1400, +/-
Looking at the 7 year gas price graph, march 2015 price is $2.80, and
it has not been over $6 average on a monthly basis since 2009 - with
only 2 spikes over $5 - down from about $14 in 2008.
I don't see natural gas prices reaching 2008 levels again in my
On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 12:28:33 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I would assume that they do say that you can't bail. The obvious
problem for them is trying to somehow collect if you do bail. Not
saying they don't have a case, but is it worth it, practical to go
after homeowners scattered all over the place for the amounts involved.
And then you have renters, people who move, people who are judgement
proof. Seems like it would be hard to collect and they would wind
up losing money on a lot of those deals.
If you use the future markets yourself, there is no different rates.
You just buy enough futures contracts to equal your typical usage for
that year. You may not cover it exactly, but you would be hedged and
exposed to a small fraction of the risk that you would otherwise. If
you typically use 120 units of energy, and a futures contract is 100
units, you buy one nat gas futures contract. You've now locked in the
price. If you actually use 100, you're perfectly hedged and regardless
of where gas prices go, you won't be affected. If you use
120, you're about 80% hedged, etc. You're still exposed to prices going
up on the 20 units that aren't hedged. It's still a big reduction in risk.
All it takes is brokerage account, a couple thousand bucks, and enough gas
usage to equal at least one futures contract worth.
If it is like the electric setup here, it is easy. No pay, no gas.
Although my electric supplier is chosen by me, the charges appear on
the consolidated bill and is sent to them by the utility. You can't
change suppliers and skip.
Renters may move to a new location, but they won't get service again
under the same name unless they pay up. Or you will be required to
make an up front deposit.
On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 11:04:15 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think you're right about that. I haven't used a different supplier,
but it would make sense. Right now the separate charges for gas and
delivery show up on the bill. So, I guess the gas utility collects the
money and forwards it on. That would make it easy to enforce.
After the rebate it was about $3600
It's 96% efficiency. The former one (23 years ago) was 80% efficiency
and about $2900...so it was not too bad.
The contractor did not charge me extra for priority which I needed due
to the old one breaking down in winter...plus there was no charge for
them to do a follow up call a month later to confirm all was working
ok...and to fine tune the venting.
It will pay for itself in 7 or 8 years I'm guessing.
120 months of heating - that's 30 years at 4 months of winter per
year - Move north a bit and have 6 months of cold weather and it's
only 20 years.
90% chance the furnace doesn't last until it's paid for itself.
Sorry for the downer -----
Still a good idea to have a good current furnace.
Some of you jealous or what? There are many reasons installing newer
any thing. Furnace blower will run in summer with A/C. New motors are
more efficient than old ones too. Most electric power consumption on
furnace is by the motor. Is it bad conserving energy for one thing?
Life is not entirely based on monetary value as far as I am concerned.
That's what I was saying. It'll never pay for itself in fuel savings
over it's lifespan, but man, the DC blower sure takes a lot less juice
than the old AC blowers did., and the peace of mind- less chance of
being stuck in the cold with a dead furnace- is worth something too.
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