Federal Spending

This brings the issue into perspective.
https://imgur.com/a/cj2dT
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 13:54:57 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"

That is a misleading (lie?) representation of the federal spending. Where is the slice for SS/MC/Federal pensions and the one for interest on the debt? I agree military spending is more than we should be spending but it is a jobs program with contracts in just about every congressional district in the US.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

If it is a "misleading lie" as you claim, I urge you to provide an accurate chart.
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:19:29 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"

I know facts really get in the way of your rants but how about Politifact?
<http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/
The real number for DoD is more like 16% Food and agriculture is 4% of that budget. The chart floating around on facebook is simply bullshit.
This is the chart they come up with. https://tinyurl.com/nlgg4eb
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On 01/28/2018 10:25 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/
It's not exactly bullshit, it's a carefully cherry-picked chart of discretionary spending. It doesn't mention discretionary spending is only 29% of the budget while mandatory spending is 65% with interest on the debt being 6%.
Like most welfare statists Pigeon Ass is skilled at turning statistics into damned lies.
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 09:39:55 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

We could spend more on science but there is a lot of science hidden in that DoD budget. If you think of all of the things we use every day that came from a weapons program you would see that. We did not go into space for "science" we went there because we developed ICBMs and spy satellites. The science was just an ancillary benefit. Then there are little things like your microwave oven, that came out of WWII research to shoot down planes. It is easier to appropriate money for defense than it is for science. I don't think that is "right" but the statement is correct. Education in the federal budget is just a red herring. Virtually all of the education money comes from state and local taxes. I am not sure why the feds are involved at all. In my county the feds kick in about 0.58% of the operating budget ($4.3M of a $729.3M budget) That includes direct payments and feed through from the state. The biggest federal contribution is for the free food program ($45M). That is free breakfast and lunch, not education.
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:35:51 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

Considering that most of their launches are for military satellites, that would not shock me.
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 12:58:17 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster
That was one of the "military" missions envisioned for the shuttle although I am not sure if we ever did it. There were plenty of "black" shuttle ops tho. The only real value of the shuttle was that we could bring big things home. Other than that it was a huge black hole that sucked up most of Nasa's budget. Expendable rockets would have been much cheaper for most things it did.
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On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 12:25:42 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yes, that was an example of fake bs news. Surprised Dove didn't spot that. The budget is $4 tril, if defense was 57%, that would be $2.2 tril, it's actually a third of that.
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trader_4 wrote:

Yes, I made an error.
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On 1/28/2018 12:21 PM, Dove Tail wrote:

Then you asked for others to correct it.
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Frank wrote:

Frank, it is good to know you are still reading!
Unlike you, if you present me with evidence that something I have posted is incorrect, I am happy to admit my errors, it's called integrity.
What is your excuse for never admitting your frequent errors?
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On 1/28/2018 11:57 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Someone else corrected it.
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On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:12:41 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:

But Dove is right, he immediately admitted to his mistake. I've never seen you or the typical trumpets here or Trump do it. Trump tells lie after lie, yells fake news, doubles down on the lies and you cheer him on.
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trader_4 wrote:

Actually, I feel complimented. I make one error, whether I admitted it and apologized or not, the goon squad is prepared to jump all over it.
This proves I have their attention and am most likely running my fingernails over a few of their slate boards.
It is a little like the New York Times and CNN, the Trumpets call them "fake news" and try to dismiss them, but, as soon as they make an actual error, there is a cacophony of criticism from the alt-right, proving just how widespread their audience actually is.
I am not comparing myself to a professional news organization in any way other than from the perspective of a hidden audience.
I am positive they treat you in a similar fashion.
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 23:29:42 +0000 (UTC), "Dove Tail"

Hey I acknowledged that you admitted your mistake. I have done the same thing when I was wrong but it does beg the question, how did you fall for any chart of "government spending" that did not have SS/MC on it? You do understand that SS/MC and interest on the debt eats every penny of federal revenue, before they even get to that discretionary spending chart you posted. It would have been accurate if you said it was "what we borrow money for". That is plenty scary enough for anyone who thinks they may still be alive when the whole thing comes crashing down. We just saw that interest on the debt is 6% of revenue at around 1.5-1.8% APR. What happens when the fed has to take their thumb off the scale and that doubles or triples? That is still nowhere near what could happen. Carter handed Reagan interest rates of over 14%. That would be 50-60% of current revenue if we did not borrow another dime. Yes I think any tax cut was a dumb idea but our economy is in so much trouble in real terms that we need to perpetuate the lie as long as possible. I may start smoking sky diving and riding motorcycles again, I don't want to be around for that crash. ;-)
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

How? I haven't slept in two days. But I make no excuses, a mistake is a mistake.
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On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 7:52:47 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That is incorrect. Mandatory spending that includes ss, Medicare, and more is $2.4t. Interest on the debt is another $225 bil. That's $2.6t, the defi cit is $600 bil, the total budget is $4t. It doesn't add up. There is abou t $800bil more coming in than total mandatory spending.
It would have been accurate if you said it

That's a very real concern, I agree.
Carter handed Reagan interest rates of over 14%.

I didn't see the dire economy that you claim. It's not shown in any graphs I've seen. I asked uncle to provide some graphs that show it. I do think th e business tax cuts were a good idea. But giving the rich, including Trump a tax cut, given the deficit and debt that you agree with, was irresponsibl e. And there were morally repugnant aspects too, eg eliminating the charita ble deduction.

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On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:06:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Are you also including all of the federal pensions, railway etc that fall on the federal government? I admit I heard that during the Obama administration, we may be getting more revenue now.

You must not have looked very hard http://www.macrotrends.net/2521/30-year-treasury-bond-rate-yield-chart I was also right in the middle of it. I was damned happy that I had a mortgage locked in at 7.25% because by the time Carter was done with his malaise they were up around what you would expect to pay on a bad credit card. I was also happy that I was paying cash for cars because the finance charge was doubling the price of a new car. The down side of that was this was when the big lie started. The federal government borrowed money to try to make the economy look good but economists tend to agree the real growth of the middle class ended in 1974 or so. We never really came out of the Ford/Carter malaise, we just had enough cheap money from the fed to make things look better. It has just been one bubble after another since then without much real growth. If you want to really get depressed look at this one.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/debt%20to%20gdp.jpg
The last time we had this kind of debt to GDP we had just come out of 4 years of war where we (us and the axis) systematically blew up the manufacturing capability of every other country in the world except the Soviets. We are not starting there now, In fact it is almost the opposite situation. We make very little here.
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On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 9:34:38 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

er

ie

t
.
m
re is $2.4t. Interest on the debt is another $225 bil. That's $2.6t, the d eficit is $600 bil, the total budget is $4t. It doesn't add up. There is a bout $800bil more coming in than total mandatory spending.

Yes.

hs I've seen. I asked uncle to provide some graphs that show it. I do think the business tax cuts were a good idea. But giving the rich, including Tru mp a tax cut, given the deficit and debt that you agree with, was irrespons ible. And there were morally repugnant aspects too, eg eliminating the char itable deduction.

I was responding to this :

I was talking about that the economy was not in "so much trouble" a month a go to justify trump's tax cut. I agree the economy was in a real disaster i n 1981.
I was damned happy that I had a

I agree. Back then we could support that debt load. Today, in the complex, competitive world economy, that debt load is a whole different story. But w here are Trump and the GOP on this? MIA
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