In troubleshooting the computer damage years ago I found the phone and
power grounds unbonded. I bonded them because I'd known for 20 years
that bonding was required. I thought the lack of bonding was rare until
I talked to a telco man five years later. Still later, I read at the
Zero Surge site that the lack of bonding is a common and serious
problem. BTW, did you know no computer plugged into a Zero Surge
protector has ever been damaged?
No damage to a protector. There was no plug-in protector for my TV and
stereo. I had foolishly trusted my whole-house protector.
Don't you think there would be a lot more damage in this neighborhood if
the power company's lines weren't grounded?
I wonder why I didn't see your question before. It's not buried in the
ground, but of course it's connected to the same neutral bar as the
power company's ground wire, eight feet from my ground rod.
Most buildings are like cows in that multiple grounds are inevitable:
water supply, water drain, furnace, construction materials, power tool
lying on the ground. Your single-point theory has led to thousands of
deaths when people touched objects like faucets and phones during
thunderstorms. A building needs bonding. Sometimes it needs multiple
Does electricity always choose the longest path to ground? Except the
rabbit ears, the only conductors within several feet of the TV were the
hot wire and the neutral. So now you're telling me the surge came in
through the plug and exited through a lightning bolt? I was watching
the TV. I saw no spark at all.
I'm the one who has been saying earthing had nothing to do with that
incident. Unbonded grounds had zapped a computer and modem years earlier.
Back to ground through the breaker box. That's where current flows
through all my neutral wires. Aren't your neutrals hooked up?
Speculated only (without any numbers) that all wire is
perfectly conductive. An effective protector is earthed via a
'less than 10 foot' connection. A phrase that has been
repeated how many times? Eight? Ten? Thirty? Distance is
critical because wires are electronic components - especially
when discussing destructive transients that occur within
Will that transient shunted by an adjacent 'plug-in'
protector go to earth ground via the neutral wire? Lets
assume a 50 foot connection to breaker box and earth ground.
That means a 'so trivial' transient of 100 amps must
transverse wire of less than 0.2 ohms resistance AND maybe 130
ohms impedance. 100 amps times 130 ohms is 13,000 volts. So
the computer and adjacent protector are at something less than
13000 volts relative to earth. How can this be? Welcome to
more electrical facts - especially earth ground - that plug-in
protectors forget to mention.
You tell me. Is that transient going to use a 13,000 volt
neutral wire? Or will it find other destructive paths to
earth? Other electrical conductors include the table,
linoleum floor tile, some wall paints, that baseboard heater.
Stereo is wired to speakers. Those speaker wire touch what?
Numerous conductive electrical paths may exist. Neither that
TV nor stereo was connected only to hot and neutral power
wire. A common destructive path through both would be
incoming on either or both AC wires, and then outgoing on any
one of so many other destructive paths.
If the transient only entered on AC hot and left on AC
neutral, then internal protection inside both TV and stereo
could have made that transient insignificant - no damage. But
then Choreboy describes an electric circuit that entered on AC
wire and exited somewhere else - as typically destructive
transients would do.
Lets assume, anyway, that entire 100 amp transient does
seek earth ground via the neutral wire. That wire is bundled
with other wires. That transient is inducing transients on
all other wires. What is connected to those other wires?
Stereo and TV. Just anther reason why the plug-in protector
was not effective.
The 'whole house' protector must make a 'less than 10 foot'
connection to the same earth ground used by telephone, cable,
and even satellite dish. You had a protector and suffered
damage? Then a protector did not connect to a single point
Do we dispute the generations of professionals who have
proven the critical need for single point ground? Lurkers can
access a list of industry professional citations at:
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus on 30 Mar 2005 entitled "UPS
unit needed for the P4C800E-Deluxe"
Unfortunately Choreboy provides no technical basis for his
assumptions. Multiple grounds are inevitable? Wrong. The
entire earth beneath a building could be one big single point
earth ground if we used what has long been available before
transistors even existed - Ufer grounding. It means building
new buildings as if the transistor existed. Other solutions
are suggested by utilities in that above long list of industry
In the meantime, Choreboy somehow assumes a plug-in
protector is earthed by a grossly undersized product that does
not even claim to provide that protection. He admits to
multiple earth grounds but denies they can cause damage even
though NIST figures demonstrate otherwise. He believes single
point earth ground can be dangerous. He provides no technical
reasons why nor even cites a single responsible citation or
He had damage. The transient found earth ground,
destructively, via his stereo and TV because a human permitted
a transient inside the house. There is no way around those
facts demonstrated in a full day's reading from industry
professional citations. The protection is only as effective
as its earth ground.
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