I want to upgrade my combined service entrence and breaker panel (CSED) from
100A to 200A so that I can run a new 50A 240 circuit to a new appliance.Is this a job an advanced DIY'er can do?
It looks straightforward enough for an electrical engineer to figure out given enough research and advice or am I deluding myself? After all they do sell these things at home depot.
Anyone know of a website/ PDF application note/ installation manual or other web reference that outlines the process.
Yes. You probably also need to upgrade the service entrance conductors and maybe the meter box.
Don't try to engineer it. Use the charts and tables in the national electric code book (also called NFPA 70). But first, find out whether your locality is using the 1999 or the 2002 code (or whatever), and what local variances they have. If you are an engineer, you should be able to understand the language in the code book if you read it a few times to get the terminology.
Best regards, Bob
I'd love to DIY this to my house, but in order to get the Power Co to turn the power back on, I'd need and inspector to OK it. Of course the city won't issue a permit to a homeonwer who DIY's it because they support cartels (contractors). So therefore my vintage 1962 panel stays. I simply put newer breakers in it and it's fine.
I'm surprised. I thought almost every jurisdiction in the country would issue permits to DIYers for this job.
Fortunately my city does not discriminate against the "owner builder". I do still need permits and inspections of course.
I did that once. The fun part was when they told me that I had to hook it up to the existing mast, while it was hot. Lots of fun working 15 foot off the ground with heavy duty wire trying to put on those clamps with 240 volts live in the wires. Will I survived, but for the life of me I don't know why they wanted me to do it. They came out the next day, before the inspector arrived, and cut my clamps off (the exact clamps they said I had to use) and put their own ones on. The inspector got there early and even thought he warned me he would leave if I was not on time, he managed to inspect and approve it all with out me there.
What is CSED? Your Utility?
Sort of depends on the type of service you have. If your service conductors are over head then maybe. If they are under ground then the complexity is compounded.
Over head is easy as far as I am concerned. Underground, can be tricky the utility might want new conductors to the panel. They could be direct bury and they might be in conduit. I would vote for direct bury.
Best to start by call some folks at the utility and ask what they will be looking for in your application.
Are you sure that you need a service change? Just what is this new appliance? Do you know anyone who would be willing to do a load calculation based on the NEC version used by your code authority? Your code authority may have the calculations on a form already. Residential load calculations are easy enough for anyone who reads appendix D page 70-609 of my 1999 NEC. Your library should have a copy. Unless your interested in spending a ~$100 your not going to easily find what your looking for on line. The NFPA is pretty anal about getting paid for their publications.
CSED Combined service entrance device is a term used by the manufacturer like square D
It is overhead. I have done the load calc and since my range and drier are electric and I want to put in an 8kW steam generator, I would need a 15A service. I will go for 200A for a future possility of a spa.
The alternative is to leave the electric alone and upgrade the gas and replace the range and or drier to free up load for the steamer.
Should I call the utility or the city inspector for advice first?
"I'm surprised. I thought almost every jurisdiction in the country would issue permits to DIYers for this job."
I'm sure tha most places would, but Baltimore City is run 100% by Democrats (and has been for decades) whom, in my opinion are much more likely to support cartels and unions, etc. To them if I do it myself I am depriving some union sob of money, etc. That and Democrats are much more likely to think that people are helpless and you have to protect them from their own stupidity.
When I lived in PG county Md they let me pull owner/builder permits for electric, plumbing, grading, framing, roofing and HVAC on a major remodel.
On 03/09/05 03:43 pm Travis Jordan tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
My township requires permits only for projects costing more than $200. I couldn't find anything else referring specifically to electrical work. A new 200A panel is less than $150, and I plan to reuse the "old" (some of them are actually new within the last year) breakers, so I'll be under the $200.
Perce
You need to weigh in the cost of threat of death vs money.
Let me explain, I do all my own electrical work in the house. New runs, lights, whatever. But there is a clear difference in that I can shut the power off when I do work in my home vs the power from the pole to my house is always on. I upgraded my service to my home to 200amp (cost was 1200.00 including electrical cert.)
The guy changed everything right up to where the power comes to my home.
But again, that's that problem though that I have. I can't shut the power off from the pole to my house to do the work, If I could maybe I would have tried.
Tom
P.S. in my area you need a licensed electrician for that job. I also needed an electrical certification for my insurance company too.
I replaced our 60amp Federal Pacific 12 breaker panel with a 40 panel 200A SquareD "Q0" panel about two years ago. In our area (Westerville, OH), the homeowner can do the work themselves, but you still need a permit. Basically you get the permit, then call them the night before you want to do the work and a crew comes out and cuts the lines where they get to your house (overhead feed) and pull the meter. You do the work, then they inspector comes out. If he OK's everything, he calls the crew and they re-connect the power and meter. A neighbor had it done about 6 months before, cost about $1,200. I purchased most of the parts from Home Depot and Lowes, total was about $450. It ended up taking about 6 hours from the cutoff to when I was ready for the inspection. I replaced the cable down the outside of the house, the meter base (they provided that when I got the permit), and the panel. Fortunately, the old panel was about three feet down from the top of the basement, it gave me plenty of room for the new panel.
Some of the things I did that helped:
1) Asked questions to the inspector during the planning, he was very helpful. Found out some of the things they require above the national code. 2) I did as much of the work ahead of time as possible. Installed the ground rod, prepared the mounting plywood, etc. 3) Arranged with a neighbor to run a long extension cord from their house. Kept the sump pump and a work light running.Good luck.
- Mike O.
Good point. My insurance company reduced my premiums after my electrical service was upgraded. Apparently, some of the older breaker boxes (in houses over 30 years old) were fire hazards, and replacing them reduces the insurance risk. The reduction in premiums isn't enough to pay for the upgrade, but it is a nice bonus.
Greg
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