Automatic fire sprinklers

[Dean Hoffman]

are now required in new Pennsylvania homes:

[Techvoid]

good idea?

[jamesgangnc]

It's not as expensive as it used to be. There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. But I'm not sure. I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. $100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out.

I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system.

[krw]

Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. More nannyism for the government.

[Evan]

LOL... Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire...

If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building...

Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with...

If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads...

Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected...

~~ Evan

[nick markowitz]

Unfortunately dry systems can be a pain in the ass to maintain they have drum drips which must be emptied at least monthly or you risk them freezing as well. pcv does not sweat as much but the drums must be kept empty to prevent problems.

[nick markowitz]

[krw]

"Facts" stated not in evidence and completely irrelevant.

If you're not OUT OF THE HOUSE by the time the fire department can get there, you're dead. A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall.

That's why we have smoke alarms.

Are you stupid? Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off.

...and nothing ever goes wrong. ...goes wrong. ...goes wrong.

Commercial buildings single family residences.

[Kurt Ullman]

Nope, according to Fire Administration and National Fire Protection Assoc tests. Hollywood notwithstanding, sprinklers in residential applications (nursing homes, hotels, etc.) don't all go off all at once. It is quite often one or two heads. BIG difference from what the trucks put on the fire. Also fires double in size every minute or so. Flashovers can take place as little as 4-5 minutes. There has never in the history of the US been a multiple fatality fire in a building with a working sprinkler.

Not that much. Most of the residential activations that haven't been accelerated, you only have one or two go off. Current data from the USFA and NFPA suggest typical damage a home suffers during a fire is reduced by 71% when sprinklers are present and operating. Occupants in a home with an operating fire sprinkler system have an 80% increased chance of survival.

Very rare.

Single family residences have a lot of experience, see above.

[Tony Miklos]

Does anyone here have some real on hands experience with fire sprinklers going off? Some years ago I did a job at a place that makes the sprinklers and systems. I told them I heard insurance companies don't like them due to all the water damage.

He replied, that's Hollywood for you! His and most sprinklers give off more of a heavy mist than a heavy drenching like you see on TV. And also if one sprinkler goes off, it doesn't trigger all the sprinklers... again, that's Hollywood.

I'm not saying this is fact, just what I was told. Actually I believe one won't set them all off, but the heavy mist instead of a downpour? Any first hand knowledge?

There are real sprinklers, and there are Hollywood sprinklers.

[krw]

...and then there are frozen pipes.

[nick markowitz]

I have pictures some where from when one head on an R 13 system went off in a town house kitchen and destroyed it and 2 rooms below it with water. because some one put something in a microwave they should not have. Sprinklers do work but they also cause significant damage as well. thats why many insurance company's will increase your premium on home owners insurance if you have sprinklers. have a customer with2 high end homes put sprinklers in both and turned them both off after having water damge from frozen pipes.

[mleuck]

Agreed, that kind of installation should be up to the builder or homeowner

[mleuck]

The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story

[Evan]

LOL... And why not ?

If something can save lives why not require it... Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day...

Smoke detectors =3D required Carbon monoxide detectors =3D required

automatic fire sprinklers =3D requirement coming soon

Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now...

How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ?

~~ Evan

[Evan]

Yup... It is usually only one sprinkler head in the immediate area of the fire that discharges...

The water damage part is a factor of knowing how your system operates, keeping the valves accessible and knowing how to operate them after the fire has been extinguished...

"Deluge" type systems where every sprinkler head activates are rare these days, leftover relics from the early days of fire protection in buildings whose systems have not been modernized OR are used in certain occupancy types like theater stages where if there is a fire it is better to douse everything with water than allow it to spread amongst the very flammable curtains and sets and backdrops...

I think that too many people on here are not at all familiar with how modern sprinkler systems work, or the various ways such systems can be designed to be all but invisible with recessed sprinkler heads... Those who worry about freezing water in the piping seem to be unaware that it is possible to have sprinkler systems with dry standpipes where the water is held back by air pressure and a valve until a sprinkler head activates and releases the pressure...

A sprinkler system that is properly designed will have a water flow sensor which will trigger an alarm... Much more damage is done by broken hoses on washing machines and failed hot water heaters which don't alert you with an alarm when they fail...

~~ Evan

[Hank]

How many fires do you hear about on the news where the FD reports that there were no working smoke detectors? I'll tell you....a lot!

Smoke detectors are about $10. CO detectors a little more. Sprinkler systems are a lot more.

Smoke detectors should be mandatory. They are proven to save life and property at a very low cost. But, like anything else, they are only as good as the people who maintain them. Now, think of how much damage can be done with a sprinkler system that is not maintained properly.

I'm all for saving lives and property, but as hard as they try, politicians can't legislate stupidity.

Hank

[Kurt Ullman]

Most insurance companies give discounts for residential sprinklers.

It is a mist. Mists (small droplets, etc.) do a better job of soaking up the heat, which is what they do to break the fire triangle (or more recently the fire tetrahedron..) . Even the regular hoses off the trucks use mist.

[Kurt Ullman]

Which of course freeze even if they aren't sprinklers. Given the placement of the pipes in the inner parts of the house, they are probably less likely to freeze than regular pipes that run up the outside walls.

[trader4]

Whether you think requiring sprinklers in new homes is a good idea or not, I think it's positively STUPID to pass this law in PA now, in the middle of the worst housing recession since the Depression. Sort of like passing national health insurance, imposing all kinds of uncertaintity and new costs on businesses during the worst recession. They can't sell houses now, so let's make them cost even more....