After-market battery for Uninterruptible Power Supply -- one user's experience

[RobertMacy]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 10:33:00 -0700, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'd stay away from Walmart batteries. They're great to try an idea but don't count on them.

I've gone through two, and have given up. Switched to Auto Zone's outlet O'Reilly [same price!!!] and wow that battery has lasted!

Have a 'classic' Mercedes that requires deep discharge 500AHr rather large battery, the tray is huge! Something's not right in the electrical and likes to discharge the battery while sits in garage [only use this car once every two to four weeks] While at local Walmart got a NEW battery. They looked it up from the car model list and brought out a D cell for $85 No way! I want something that FILLS that tray, after all, can't go back to the garage while being out on the road and battery fails, right? So they came out with a huge capacity battery, 750AHr, $115 and two year warrantee, ok.

Can tell good battery, engine starts on first turn over, that's a HOT spark! Just to take extra good care of battery, while in garage, disconnect from car's system, and place on 'trickle' charge [again from Walmart, measured trickle at around 50 to 100mA so shouldn't hurt the battery.] hey, I can really count on this battery now. Well within six months, while out and the AZ heat dries out the carburator and need a lot of extra cranking; that battery almost wouldn't start the car! almost ran out of capacity! ok, two year warranty, I lived with it until 9 months went by and sometimes wouldn't even start the car! Would ask passerbys for a jump start [always carry cables] So went over to Walmart's garage, and said battery deosn't work, need a warrantee replacement. The technician checked the battery, it measured good, so can't replace! Say what?! Ok look at this, turn the key, and hear clicking. Definition of battery gone/NOT working. Sorry, can't do anything, because the battery measures good.! AFter getting the Top General Manager involved, and arguing for around 45 minutes, got a replacement battery, but told to NOT come back for another warrantee replacement!!! I drove over to O'Reilly's 300 feet away and got a huge battery for $128, which is STILL performing like the day I purchased a year ago. I still have the 'new' Walmart battery in the garage, you want it?

While at the counter of O'Reilly's I was openly complaining about the batteries from Walmart and several customers chimed in with similar stories. how AZ 'eats' the battery in less than a year from Walmart, but the batteries from O'Reilly keep lasting even after 5 years, and come with a non-quibble warranty.

Anyway, saw you mention Walmart as a potential UPS battery source and thought I'd jump in and share.

Plus, watch out, they try to sell their batteries with a 'use this battery anyplace but in an auto and it voids the warranty' warranty. That was the disclaimer I kept getting from the manager at Walmart. By my putting the battery on trickle charge while car stored in garage between trips VOIDED the Walmart warranty?! Ok show me in writing that restriction, they could not, so I won, but by narrow margin here.

[hah]

Use the F in elephant, if you can find it :)

[J Burns]

I believe they come from the same manufacturers as other brands. Walmart pressures manufacturers for low bids, which can force a reputable manufacturer to cut corners.

Why deep discharge for a car? 750 AH sounds like a 450-pound battery.

When NiCads came out, the theory was that leaving them on a charger was safe if the current wasn't too high. The standard was 14 hours at C/10. They didn't last long. It turns out charging voltage causes unwanted changes on the plates, so shorter charging times are better.

It's also true of car batteries. Instead of keeping a battery at trickle-charge voltage 720 hours a month, newer chargers sense when a battery is slightly discharged and switch on for a short time. Newer chargers also use pulses. For example, if it reads an amp, it's actually sending out 4-amp pulses 25% of the time so that 75% of the time there's no charging voltage on the plates.

Maybe Walmart made the manufacturer cut corners, and maybe a Walmart manager disregarded climate. A battery sold in AZ should have less acid than one sold in AK. There may be other differences.

[Stormin Mormon]

Thank you for the first hand experience. I'll make a point to avoid the Walmart storage batteries, then.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Different operating conditions: scooter battery gets discharged and recharged frequently; battery in a standby UPS is charged and rarely (unless you have lousy power from your electricity supply utility) discharged. Battery internal construction is usually different for those two different uses.

Perce

[RobertMacy]

The 'other' battery is built into one of those utility thingies. What I NEEDED was the ability to inflate tires quickly, easily, which is built into this heavy portable unit. I also got it big enough to toss in the trunk and use in case the main battery didn't start the car. Well, that portable unit doesn't have enough umph to even turn the engine over, just clicks. I went back and naively asked, will this start my car, oh yes! was their answer. sigh.

Anyway the battery in it is now down to ?? won't even fill an automobile tire in one setting! But it does fill the multitude of two wheel truck tires and soft wheel barrow tires, so 'limps' along service wise. arrrggg! sometimes I think Walmart wells what nobody else wants! or seconds or counterfeits. In defense of walmart, I did like their TV prices and quality is decently holding. AND very expensive monitor cable purchased to replace a flimsy VGA monitor cable with a single broken wire! is more like a truck cable! so some things seem ok.

[RobertMacy]

oops, that's cranking power, not AHrs, good carch.

[J Burns]

How were you charging the 'other' battery? They self-discharge faster in hot climates. If they aren't periodically charged fully, deposits harden on the plates, reducing cranking amps and capacity. A full charge takes time, and leaving it on a trickle charge for complete charging can cause unwanted deposits.

I had a charger whose only electronic component was a rectifier. I installed a switch to use it as a half-wave rectifier so I'd have a trickle charger when I needed it. Still, battery life was mediocre. Then a neighbor asked if I wanted a regulated charger he was throwing out. I replaced the cables and, with a meter, discovered that it charged with pulses -- something I'd never heard of.

It would be hard to tell from the ammeter when a battery is charged. I began plugging the charger into a cheap digital watt meter. When the wattage no longer went down much in half an hour, I figured the battery was charged.

In 2000, a neighbor got 2-year a Walmart battery for his car. In two years, it wouldn't start his car. He put it on his steps. My car needed a battery. Everybody said to go to Walmart. I decided I could save a trip if his worked. For 12 years, it gave me good cranking speed. Several times a year, when the voltage got down to 12.5, I'd put it on the pulse charger to clean up the plates.

I'm amazed at the difference a good charger can make. The new ones even compensate for temperature. If I were buying one, I'd get the kind that turns on and off automatically.

[RobertMacy]

Interesting. Don't know about pulses, but the charger goes from 5-10 amps at the start drops down later to lower charge.

Can't find now of course, but there is an online complete reference to 'repairing' lead-acid batteries. He describes the chemistry, temp, deterioriation, and even how to completely discharge and recharge to replate the panels. VEry interesting reading. I tried using Electronic lab equipment and actually got some extra life out of the battery, but didn't last very long. In defense, I wasn't completely diligent in the attempt, but was educational to try.

Where did you buy the charger, model number, you reference?

[J Burns]

I didn't buy it. I salvaged it when a neighbor offered it to me. It's a Sears fully automatic 8 amp charger, 608.71972.

You've got me thinking... I doubt it was designed to use "pulse technology." I think it pulses because that's the most efficient way to regulate voltage: not so much heat to dissipate. I guess it was dumb luck that pulsing cleans up battery plates better. A charger designed to use the technology would probably be even better.

I googled "pulse car battery charger." One device that popped up is not a charger, just a pulser. You leave it hooked up between the terminals. When you put the charger on, it generates pulses. Owners have reported on Amazon that it really does keep batteries working better. It makes more sense to me to buy a charger that generates pulses.

[clare]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 15:14:10 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote: .

Just avoid Walmart altogether and save yourself a LOT of heartache.

[clare]

Should be, but I nave had the exact same battery make and part number in both scooter and UPS -- -- --

[Stormin Mormon]

Isn't that a country western song? "I lost my heart and everything else at Walmart"?

[gregz]

Can't say I've experienced problems with walmart batteries. I dont go there often, but when I do, I prefer deep discharge. Got one been on charge for two years off solar. Can feed 1000 watt sine inverter. Far cheaper than kmart or sears, by 40%

Greg

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Unless it's a sealed battery, I hope you're keeping the electrolyte topped up.

Perce

[Stormin Mormon]

Yep, use Gatorade, or other sports drink? Red Bull, or five hour power shots?

[gregz]

I should check it. I have it set for 13.8 volts charge, and it's temperature monitored. Bubbling should be minimal. I think it's an 80 Ahr.

Greg

[mroberds]

I have had good luck with both Panasonic and Power-Sonic sealed lead- acid batteries, and bad luck with everything else I've tried, including BB Battery, UB, CSB, and Power Patrol. All the Power-Sonics I bought before 2013 were made in Mexico, but the ones I bought in 2013 were made in China. I put them in my old APC UPS (circa 2000) but their longevity remains to be seen. I'd be inclined to trust a Yuasa, based on experience with their flooded batteries, but I have no experience with their sealed lead-acid batteries. I get about five or six years from these batteries in a computer UPS, where the utility power is pretty reliable. I have mostly used the "7 Ah" size (which, these days, is often labeled 7.2 or 7.5 Ah).

I usually order them online from Digi-Key or Mouser. I checked Amazon and a few sellers there are showing *pictures* of a Power-Sonic battery but probably *shipping* some junk battery. Caveat emptor.

Note that the "7 Ah" size can come with 3/16" wide or 1/4" wide tab terminals; make sure you get the right one. Also, I worked on an APC

1U rack-mount UPS that specified batteries with a flame-resistant casing; this was only easy to find in Panasonic's line. (They are in the Power-Sonic catalog but I couldn't figure out how to buy them in small quantities.)

I'm pretty sure CSB is "China Storage Battery".

Matt Roberds

[clare]

Correct. Many of the batteries in APC standby UPS units are made in VietNam.