2-wire in-walll timer -- still sold?

[micky]

Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had

24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on: The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing. Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.

[Bob]

Intermatic still makes timers that don't require a neutral. Without a neutral the timer relies either on an internal battery or a trickle current through the lamp filament to operate the timer. In the latter case the timer works only with incandescent lamps. Thanks to our legislative nannies such timers will not work in many applications, hence their scarcity in the marketplace.

[RBM]

Here is a link:

[Tony Miklos]

What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

[RBM]

>

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of current through the circuit when it's in the off position

[clare]

>>

There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work - including on 2 wire switched return circuits

[Tony Miklos]

>>>

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?

[WW]

Ace Hardware # 3290160 60 minute spring wound timer. I use for a heat lamp in bathroom. WW

[micky]

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). This one will be just fine. It's very much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to

which includes pdf manuals for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.

I'm c Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in anything. From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)

[Ron in NY]

I have a couple of ST01C's and they work fine with CFL's. They use a battery to keep time and they have multiple on-off switching ability. They can be programmed to switch time for daylight savings, and they can also be programmed to automatically compensate for varying daylight lengths (longer in summer--shorter in winter). A great timer, however they are quite complex to program. You can find them for a reasonable price on Ebay. ======================================================== Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

[Ron in NY]

I forgot to mention---The ST01C is white and the ST01AC is almond in color. ======================================================== Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

[RBM]

>>>>

I think that their reference to "mechanical" is how you operate the thing. You have to turn the dial and push it in to set it. Their digital models have push buttons and a screen. The timing mechanism is electronic, not mechanical

[Tony Miklos]

>>>>>

I checked the instructions and you are right. Only two wires and a

40watt incandescent minimum load. By the looks of it and the description, it sure looks motorized.

[micky]

No, they exist. I think there are 7-day timers too. In the grey metal box about the size of a thick bible, with a silver-grey lever coming out the side for manual on/oiff. Usually hard-wired

[krw]

Utter nonsense.

OTOH, if you only talked about things you knew something about you'd be a mute.

[micky]

Thanks. Maybe this won't confuse me anymore.

Very good to know.

BTW, these are for the ceiling lights, in one case a kitchen and the other case a dining room. Partly to give the houses a lived-in look when no one is home.

[micky]

It *sounds* great!! Thanks.

I can handle it, he said proudly, and my friend's landlady is pretty smart, but sometimes gets stubborn and plays dumb. The two of them can work it out.

Thanks again, I often forget to look on ebay.

P&M

[micky]

Replying to myself (so as not to get into a fight!) I found at

the fourth and last picture "Electronic ballast of a compact fluorescent lamp" and it shows a CFL that's been opened.

Plus

seem to be external ballasts, but still are under the heading "Compact Fluorescent Ballasts (CFL)" They really seem more like "compact (fluorescent-ballasts). IOW, I don't know what they are but Ron's first-hand report and the wikip link are enough for me.

[clare]

"electronic ballasts" are generally also subject to switch de-rating - and CFLs have an "electronic ballast" .The derating factor may well be less on electronics, but the "be safe" method is to treat all flourescents as ballasted lamps when calculating switching loads.

[clare]

And almost exclusively requiring a minimum of 3 wires - one of which is a neutral.