how do you...

[enigma]

keep deer from nibbling on tree bark/branches? we've done logging in the llamas winter pasture & removed all the pine. we had a good bit of the branches left for the llamas & goats to browse, but, of course, they've suddenly discovered there are sugar maples in the pasture (which they never bothered in the 5 years i've winter pastured them there). i seem to recall something that tastes nasty that could be sprayed or painted on the trees. am i imagining things or is there such a thing? i can put mesh fencing around the trunks, but that won't keep them from eating the branches. i can't move them to the other pastures until the ground thaws enough to refence. any ideas? lee

[Frank]

Small trees, you have to surround with fence or netting. Deer can only browse up to about 6 feet but bucks can bring down trees several inches in diameter rubbing their antlers. Local park in reforesting a field wrapped new trees with wound plastic and guyed them, maybe losing 10 to

20 percent to buck rubs.

[enigma]

Frank wrote in news:saGdnaJO1Js56T3anZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

yes, llamas can browse up to 6-7' too. they stand on their hind legs. most of these maples are 4 or more inches across, but llamas & the stupid goats will peel & eat the bark, eventually girdling the trees. the maples that are big enough to tap start getting flaky bark, & they never bother those except to nibble low branch tips. considering how much yummy pine there is on the ground right now i don't get why they suddenly noticed the maples. oh well, i'll keep the stupid goats tied outside the pasture & put mesh around the trunks, i guess. i was hoping for a nasty tasting spray recipe though. lee

[Don Staples]

Pine needles have an astringent in them that makes them less palatable than the maple. About the only critter I know of that works on pine bark is beaver, and they prefer other trees over pine.

[Frank]

I've never had any luck repelling deer. I understand it takes persistent application of things like rotten eggs dispersed in soapy water. Some stuff is sold that does not work. I had a neighbor buy fox urine. I told her it would not work because I've used it as a masking scent while deer hunting. Same with skunk.

In the dead of winter, deer will eat anything. They may starve to death from malnutrition but their stomachs are never empty. Physical barrier is only real solution. Netting can work well but a big herd might get them rammy and they can knock it down.

[enigma]

"Don Staples" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

llamas & goats love pine. not so much the bark, but the needles. they do strip the bark on the branches they can reach though. i'm sure maple tastes better though :) lee

[ctlady]

I live in the country and used to have deer problems with my small orchard. Now, I have 4 dogs and after poop scooping the yard I spread their droppings around the trees, year 'round. It solved my deer problem. . . they stay away.

my > "Don Staples" wrote innews:13q1ecephc8a79b@corp.=

supernews.com:

[enigma]

ctlady wrote in news: [e-mail] oups.com:

yeah, but my problem *isn't* deer. it's llamas & they have to be in this pasture until the barn is finished & the other fencing is replaced... i'm not dumping dog poo in the pasture. there's enough bean piles there already & if i put carnivore poo in there i can't use the other on my gardens. does Bitter Apple come in gallons? lee

[Sheldon]

If course you can, with larger trees use turkey wire and simply set at a large enough diameter that the deer can't reach the lower branches... I have quite a few trees where I've done exactly that... just make a ring of the turkey wire around the tree and stake to the ground in a few spots. If you need to mow around the trees hammer four 4' metal posts in and use chicken wire set about a foot off the ground so a push mower will fit under (chicken wire works fine too). Since putting up these fences I've had no deer nibbling my trees. I've tried spraying all sorts of deer repelant, none do anything except necessitate my needing a long hot shower each time with plenty of scrubbing to remove the stench, and a lot of extra laundry. Turkey wire, chicken wire, and metal posts are cheap (much less expensive than deer repelant), and easily removed and reused (can't reuse deer repelant).

Here:

[Frank]

Deer are afraid of dogs and will run from any dog. I once saw a big buck being chased by a beagle. OTOH deer are not stupid. I also observed a herd of deer munching on acorns under a tree while dog chained in yard next to them was barking his head off. The deer learn which dogs can chase them and which are confined. You must have fooled the deer but I suspect if there were no dogs in the area, the deer would not be fooled by poop alone.

[Sheldon]

That's not true. Deer would rather flee than confront but not always. My neighbor had a tough border collie, Rocky, because he loved to dig up rocks and leave them hidden for the lawnmower. 99pct of the time Rocky would head full speed into a herd of deer and all the deer would flee, but every so often one of the dominant does would stop, turn, and glare at him. Poor Rocky, how embarrassing being backed down by a doe, he'd turn tail and slowly retreat, wimpering with head down, while that doe would stand tall, snorting and pounding a hoof into the ground. Of course that never stopped Rocky from chasing deer the next day. No dog wants to actually fight a deer... a pack of dogs will take down a deer but one on one no single dog (or unarmed man) stands a chance against a single deer... one whomp with that hoof will slplit a skull like a ripe melon.

[Frank]

I'll take your word for it. I've seen a lot of deer chased by dogs but never the two together. Deer are faster than dogs but do not have the stamina and dogs can bring them down in a long chase.

[Sheldon]

te:

You're kidding of course... then you've never seen deer run. There're good reasons deer hunters don't use dogs. I see deer run over long distances every day. There is no way any dog is going to bring down a deer by chasing, especially not once a deer gets into the woods, and deer accelerate from zero to 35 mph in under two seconds. Preditors bring down deer by stealth, never by chasing. Packs of coyotes bring down sick deer but they can never catch healthy deer, and no single coyote would dare go up against a deer, not even a sick one. A deer under duress can leap ten feet into the air and on the way down in mid air will stomp a dog brainless. Deer are not nearly so meek as portrayed by Disney, deer are extremely powerful beasts and if cornered will fight ferociously. There is also good reson why there's a problem with an over abundance of deer, they are not so easily taken down by preditors. The white tailed deer has survived essentially unchanged some three and a half million years, not because it's easy prey... man is it's only serious enemy.

[J. Clarke]

This ain't Bambi

[Frank]

I've seen this. The moron in the tape covered himself with buck lure during the rut with a pen raised deer. The buck was not as much attacking him as exerting his dominant rights as happens when bucks fight over does. Buck lures usually come with warning not to apply to your person as most contain urine from does in heat or tarsal glands of rutting bucks.

As for deer running long distances, they don't. Deer are sprinters and put on a burst of speed to find cover. Then they stop and wait and run again if pursuer finds them. In parts of country, deer hunters are allowed to use dogs. This is usually in swampy areas where deer can take refuge.

[J. Clarke]

The point is not why the deer did it but that the deer had no difficulty kicking the living crap out of him.

[Frank]

In my lifetime, I've been kicked by a deer and bitten by a groundhog. Lesson I learned was to make sure they are dead after you shoot them ;)

[Billy]

Those were some plucky critters. Good on them.

Hey, "enigma", you still with us?

I found a couple of web sites that relate to deer, not llamas and goats, but you may still want to have a look at them. You'd be amazed at the dearth of information on llama repellents.

sites have some counsel on treatments to use but the upshot of it all, is [sic] that fences is best.

[enigma]

Billy wrote in news: [e-mail] ct.net.au:

usually :)

not really. i don't know too many people that keep llamas

*and* run a maple syrup operation. however, i think a repellant study might be useful, as llamas, horses, & goats can suffer liver damage from eating maple leaves (usually wilted, or autumn leaves that haven't dried out). since it takes a goodly quantity of leaves before symptoms show, this isn't common knowledge. apparently in horses, by the time it shows symptoms, it's pretty much too late. it shows as dizziness or odd gait in llamas & isn't usually fatal as, if caught in time, the liver heals pretty well. but my problem is eating bark... well, it was, but now they've settled on eating the pine (and the blueberry bushes), so it's not so big a deal ;)

so it appears. fortunately i have a roll of woven wire stock fence to put around the trunks... no worry about it washing off either. lee

[dr-solo]

It was June 15th and our annual picnic for friends and family at my mothers house out in the country (altho the burbs had been built up around it). People were arriving and Sims d'Pap slipped out the door as he was greeting people. Now his most favorite thing was to chase the chipmunks thru the gardens with his tail propellering above the hostas. He is not a "follow your nose down the yellow brick road" type so I didnt worry until I heard his very excited "I need some back up here" bark and I stepped outside to call him. Just as I did I saw him flash out from under the big beech tree with branches to the ground, tail down, hauling ass back towards the house and going so fast he streaked past me. Then almost immediately I saw the legs of what I thought was a Great Dane break out from under the same branches, but as the animal cleared the tree and the head came up I saw it was a deer and she looked very intent on making toe jam out of Sims. I hollered and she came up and stopped but I could see really wanted to trounce that annoying little thing that had now turned around and was yapping his head off. At that point I ran right at her, yelling and waving the towel I had in my hand to get her moving in any other direction that towards Sims. I am quite sure Sims had discovered her fawn out there and she was protecting it.

Ingrid