Answer to the straight cut pruning method - for the second time!

[Martin]

Hi Hemant

This post was in response to a question put earlier, which was:-

"I'm curious about the details of that pruning method that some Brits use for bushes. You know, the one where you just make a straight cut across the middle top of the bush. Does anyone have any details about it? Where do you choose your line? Do you do any other "lateral" pruning. Etc. Etc."

I did reply to the person concerned giving the source of the article but he either missed my reply or ignored it. That thread actually got a bit out or control and off topic so I posted the reply you see which contains the whole report rather that just a reference.

I would however advise against this method of pruning.

Please note my last comment which says "We do not endorse the above pruning method. For the best way to prune roses visit:-

"

Regards

Martin Double Bexrose - Webmaster

Email: [e-mail] Web Site:

----- Original Message ----- From: Hament Verma To: [e-mail] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: RE : Straight cut pruning.

Hi,

Let me understand what you are trying to say here. Can you explain me in detail?

Nice meeting you.

Thanks,

Hemant Verma

*****************

Friends are for forever

From: Martin ( [e-mail]) Subject: Answer to the straight cut pruning method - for the second time!

View this article only

Newsgroups: rec.gardens.roses Date: 2004-08-21 01:44:03 PST

PRUNING ROSES WITH HEDGETRIMMERS:British Trials Show It Produces More BloomsBy RNRS President, Ken Grapes

[dave weil]

No, there's a third choice - *you* missed the reply.

Well, a lot of that had to do with you and your sockpuppet, Franz.

Your original reply to my query was just a link to the pruning article on the site that many of us will be ignoring in the future. It wasn't a link to that "report". The "second time", as you put it, was actually the first time you posted anything other than a vague biased comment on the method.

BTW, who cares if you endorse it or not? Why are you the Rose Nazi about this? Do you have proof that it causes the problems that you claim? One would think that if it *was* such a bad technique, we could have heard some rebuttal to the decade-old tests? Apparently, from what I understand, they're still using this method. In fact, one of our most successful rose gardeners (who takes care of about 70 gardens for the time-pressed denizens of Nashville), uses a variation of this because he uses a chainsaw to do most of his pruning in the winter and then goes back in the spring to clean things up. Apparently it works for he and his clients .

Do you even *grow* roses or are you a hired gun for the website?

[dave weil]

Ahem, here is your "first response", in its entirety (with the advertising disabled):

------------------ You will find an article on pruning on the Be*se web site at:-

Regards

Martin Double Bexrose - Webmaster

------------------ Now, how is what I said wrong? The article on pruning *wasn't* the one about the method that I was asking about.

BTW, you never said whether you actually grow roses yourself. Have you ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears? Either you or Franz can answer if you'd like. But if Franz answers, we'll have our answer, I suppose, because I'll bet that he claims to have 2,000 roses and prunes the Queen's garden in Windsor.

[dave weil]

Or, more correctly stated, "Have you ever *been* opposite of the business end of a pair of shears", he anally corrected.

[Martin]

Ouch, the pain of this boy!

Regards

Martin Double

Email: [e-mail] Web Site:

[Martin]

You will need to prune my responses better than that to lose my original comment on the straight cut pruning method! If I can still see it, then so can others, so stop being so silly.

I do grow roses, however rather than brag to the entire newsgroup about how well I grow roses, I can send you those details direct if you wish. You are obviously not well up in rose circles yourself to have the need to ask the question in the first place!

I notice that there are at least four Martin's on this news group, so I am a bit confused myself especially when one response by a so called Martin that appeared to come from me, when it had not. Maybe you could throw some light on this! As to your paranoia about Franz and me; all I can say is that I do not know the person but have seen some of his posts on the newsgroup other than that there is no connection. I think we need an explaination from you before deciding whether to have you commited or not!

What has the number of roses Franz grows got to do with anything? You could ask how many I grow perhaps, there would be a little sense in that.

Regards

Martin Double

Email: [e-mail] Web Site:

[dave weil]

That was your *first* response to my query, *exactly* as you posted it, with a little alteration of your advertising only. *Later*, you said this:

"On the question of pruning straight across, I recall the Royal National Rose Society (foolishly) advocate this method on one occasion, but they have since rescinded that advice. The method did not choose any particular line to cut to for individual stems, it was more a case of "hedge cutting with a hedge trimmer or lawn shears". This method might appear to work to start with on vigorous bushes but die back will be extensive which will eventually weaken and/or make the rose look unsightly".

No reference to the article that you *eventually* posted as "the second time" that you had posted it. Also, the article that you posted claimed that the dieback wasn't as bad as you claimed, and this was confirmed by another poster, nor have you offered any credible rebuttal to the article that you yourself posted.

No thanks. But thanks for your comfirmation that you aren't just a needy website developer.

Ohhhh, I think it's obvious that I don't move in "rose circles".

Now this is just obsfucation. I am only commenting on *your* postings on the roses newsgroup.

me; all I can say is that I do

Others have commented as well. I have posted headers from both of you which clearly indicate that Franz is your sockpuppet (or the other way around). And the only response has been, "you're wrong". I think that people can decide for themselves.

I did comment on how many roses you might claim to grow, actually.

[Franz Heymann]

You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong. I live about 300 miles from Windsor. I have approximately 2 dozen roses. I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done the previous season. They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my restraint by being very floriferous. You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you do have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz

[dave weil]

Thanks for the input, Mr. Double.

BTW, I've only got you beat by about half-a-dozen roses.

[Franz Heymann]

It was unnecessary for you to insert that line. We already know that you are invariably wrong.

[snip]

Franz

[dave weil]

See?

If you weren't so obvious in your attempts to build your sockpuppet, it might even be funny. Just a quick question though - isn't it difficult to grow roses in the North Sea?

[Franz Heymann]

restraint

It would appear that you are one of those must-have -the-last-liners. Please have it.

Franz

[Shiva]

You provincial louts are so damned touchy. My mistake-- I was the one who noticed the similarity in the headers. I'm afraid neither you nor Martin are worth the level of attention necessary for making fine distinctions. You may not be the same people, but you have the same humorless tone. Might as well be the same people. Meanwhile, had Martin not crossposted to all these groups we might have been spared every meeting you. Martin, God Damn it, stop answering ever post by directing people to your half-assed web site.

Q: I have a hangnail, what should I do? A: Go to the Bexrose website, we have an entire article on trimming hanganails! ~~Martin, half-assed webmaster. Plllbbbbt.

[Geoff]

What a gracious way to admit that you were wrong! A level of genuine humility comes with added value!

Geoff

[Doug.]

********* With H.T. roses the natural habit is to grow on eacn year and form a straggly bush which eventually plays itself out and falls prey to all sorts of diseases. However, in real life we don't usually grow them for that purpose or aspect. Since they have been either budded or grafted they are not really 'natural' any more. We want an aspect which provides a nice smallish bush which will flush with many flowers and will fit in with its neighbours and all make a good show to please the eye of man. To achieve this the standard practice was and still is, to prune at the appropriate time of season, - summer trimming to keep shape, and spring hard pruning to make the plants develop sturdy shoots, and hence branches which develop their own sub-branches with their consequent blaze of fairly compact colour. Doug.