Zinsser Sanding Sealer vs. Shellac

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

The UV protection is interesting to me. It will be four years ago in February that we bought a house in Austin that faces the east Texas sun (better than west, but not by much), and after two and half years the stained and varnished front door started looking like hell. The varnish is entirely GONE from some of the houses across the street that face west. I just refinished my front door earlier this year by spot sanding, touching up the stain, and applying a couple of coats of McCloskey's marine spar varnish, but I have to wonder how long that will last. Sounds like the Kwick Kleen stuff would be a good product to try when the time comes. Might also want to try it on the black walnut swing hanging from the pergola in my back yard, made for me by a friend in Missouri and also finished with spar varnish. It ain't holding up...
<snipped lots of good info about lemon oil and other "cleaning" products>

Well if you're sold on it, then I am too.

I wouldn't dream of brushing something like this. I've been spraying stuff for 30 years, so I'm already sold on the benefits. :-)

Thanks for all the great advice Robert, as usual.
Scrolling ahead to page four, I see that it also comes in quarts. That's good, because I was trying to decide which of the three grades (gloss, semi-gloss, or satin) to purchase; so now I might just get one of each. A gallon would last me a LONG time, unless maybe I'd could try to make some extra bucks by refinishing all the neighbors' doors! Any words about which of those three grades you prefer using?
What about the product's ability to stay usable in the can? I'd guess that since it has the property of melting into prior coats when applied that it wouldn't need something like "Bloxygen" to keep it from wanting to "cure" in the can, correct?
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*sigh*....
Before things got so tight I had a nice little deal going with a door company and another with a hardware company. The people you have that have wrecked doors fed me well for a while.
Refinish, new hardware, add a peephole, new weatherstrip, and rehang/ shim as needed and they were as good as new for about 75% of replacement cost with none of the big mess.
I liked doing that, and in fact giving props to the start of the door refinishing business for me, I picked up on that after lengthy talks with this guy about Kwickkleen:
http://www.billsdoorrefinishing.com/bills_frameset.html
I am not sure he is still in business. He had a head full of fumes off and on when I was talking to him, but he knew the Kwickkleen product inside and out. He refinished one door a day, from stripping to re-hanging. Full entryways and sidelights were longer (and extra!).
I never could convince him there was money in rehanging doors. I never could convince him that there was money in specialty hardware installs, especially the higher security or more sophisticated stuff like box locks.
Worse, I could never convince him to spray dyes on doors or wood. It scared him to death. His finished product (including color) was whatever it looked like with Kwickkleen on it.
Loved to work a solid three days a week, drink his beer, and take a weekday for "paperwork and phone calls". Worked at his own speed when he felt like it. Great guy, too. Never talked to him when there was an bit of tension in his voice.

My confidence is high in this product. I wouldn't use a product on a high vis project like a country club or some of the upscale houses I have worked on if I thought I had one ounce of liability I didn't need to assume.
I don't like spar varnish; never have. It seems to me to do a lot of things OK, but none well.
There are too many other products out there that perform better.
Remember that when you color your door (unless you use Transtint) you will get some UV protection. I don't oil stain unless I have to, but really prefer to dye. The only dye I have used with great success is the Behlen's Solalux products. Thin with anhydrous alcohol and spray them right out of your gun as a mist coat.
As one of Dr. Robert Phibes experiments, I used what is called "the roof test". Again, not my idea, but it is a keeper. I put Behlens on a piece of 2X2 poplar about 36 inches long and let it dry. I sprayed three coats of finish on the wood and let it cure for a couple of weeks. I put wax paper covered with painters tape over half of the 2X2 and left the other half uncovered.
I tossed it up on the roof in the spring, and left it up there for about 14 months. (It was supposed to be 12 months but I forgot about it!) I uncovered the taped side and was really surprised. Even in the overbearing south Texas heat on the roof (surface temp about 150F) in the direct UV of the sun, the difference in the two sides was negligible. I was already using Kwickkleen, but not Behlen's. But with the satin KK over the Behlen's, it worked very, very well. Almost no color loss at all from 12 hours a day of exposure, and the KK was still in perfect condition.
When I was going on this project full steam, I could strip, wash, sand, wash, dye, and put five coats of finish on in ten hours. Granted, you are a busy guy, but you still spend more time on surface prep than any other aspect. Thinned dye will be ready to coat with finish in 15 minutes (!!!!) or about as soon as you have your gun cleaned, and a batch of finish mixed.
Then every 20 - 30 minutes after that first coat you can go back with another coat. I would start at 8:00am, and have the door back up with hardware on by 6:30 or 7:00pm. Granted, if it was really humid or a little cool, I would leave off the weather strips, and secure the door with only the deadbolt for the night. I went by the next day to check for blushing, etc., and installed the weatherstrip and collected.

Now if we could only get brother Leon to see the benefits.... ;^)

My pleasure, glad to be of help.

I have used all three. Unlike a lot of products where I can't tell any difference between semi gloss and satin, I could with these products. I like the semi gloss for inside, and the satin for exterior surfaces. The gloss looks like any other lacquer.
One thing I will warn you about: Dave is the owner and head banana at Kwickkleen. He mixes his own product at his shop in Indiana. Almost all of his products are sold to professionals, so he figures he can leave off some of the instruction and training.
I bought some semi gloss from him and didn't stir it well. The unknown flatteners (Dave gives up NOTHING) were at the bottom and they were stuck to the bottom of the can. I stirred with a stick for a few minutes and went on my way spraying. It was for some store fixtures and neither the owner or myself were happy with the end shiny finish.
After five minutes on the phone with me, Dave informed me in a stern voice that I was the problem, not his product. He took it for granted that I would stir ANY coating with premium metal stirrer mounted on a power drill for a minimum of five minutes. The flattener was on the bottom of the can and my not too vigorous stirring of the product didn't get the solids in solution. I was more worried about getting bubbles in the finish than anything, so no power stirrer. Dave told me to use the stirrer, and just use low speeds. Wise guy....
So I mixed in some gloss I had left from another project, stirred it all up as required and was back in business.
The point being that unlike so many finishes geared for the DIY and the semi pro guys, this isn't it. You have to follow all the good habits of finishing you have developed over the years.
Remember that you will be paying shipping, and a hazardous material fee when you order. I don't recall how the break point comes, but there is some point where they hit the shipping minimum and it doesn't matter how much you buy, it doesn't add to the cost. They don't tag you for a "per container" or handling cost.
Also, for a maiden voyage, you might consider that unless things have changed, you don't pay the hazardous material fee on ONE quart. So it would just be shipping. It would give you a chance to test the water on the cheap.

I have had some that remained usable in the can for about a year. It seemed fine, and since I clean my can rims really well, it was in a tight seal. I really don't know how much longer it would last. I poured a little bit of lacquer thinner over the top of the remaining finish and tapped on the lid with a rubber hammer and put it out in the shop. Dave however tells me that <unopened>, the shelf life is indefinite!
If you jump in Steve, I would really be interested in what you think of this stuff. If you are used to spraying, this will be a real treat for you.
If you have anything else, just ask. I will be gone till next Wednesday as me and the SO are going away for Tday with a few more days tacked on.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
<a bunch of incredible advice and information snipped, albiet reluctantly>

Two quart cans on order; one gloss, one satin. Can't wait to try it out!

As usual, the amount of time and energy you spend on your responses is a great gift to everyone here, and it's _very_ much appreciated. I have precious little time to keep up with the pace of this newsgroup, but your posts are a pleasure to read and I don't miss a single word (which is more than I can say for most other posts that are longer than a couple of short paragraphs...)
THANK YOU for answering all my silly questions. I will try to follow up with some half-intelligent feedback once I've gained some experience with the product, and I hope your Thanksgiving was a happy one too!
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