your thoughts on metric

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What metric really is, is a transfer from design lab to fabrication floor. If the boys designed it in mm, they expect the quotes and subsequent samples to be all metric. It is not some kind of secret language, as you know, but a preferred method to some. Not all. Some.
It is the close-minded "it's the USA-thereore BEST" crowd that hinders flexibility and advancements in adaptation to world markets. IOW... arrogance. Like Doug Miller.
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wrote in message

It's not just the USA crowd. A lot of the people that make much loud noise against metric never use any measurement system of any kind. Those that absolutely need to use measurements every day, all day, are in the minority. When I was in university I heard some pretty heated arguments against metric from my musician friends, a very noisy lot indeed. Me and my physics buddies were just crying inside, since no amount of logic worked any kind of magic, and we just didn't have the volume needed to convince anyone of anything.
I've been bitter every since.
- Owen -
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At work we make custom molded parts both to customer specification and our designs to their finished product. I don't recall ever seeing a drawing with metric dimension until sometime maybe in the mid '80s. Now more than half are metric.
Used to be too, drawings had dimensions like 12 5/8" that later became 12.625 with the advent of drawing programs, but now it is likely to be 12.62.
I used to buy hydrauling supplies, hoses, etc from a local comapny. Whenw e go imported machines, they could not suppoy us. They told me "if it's metric, you're on your own" Five years later they were out of business, but my new supplier has everything I need.

I have to wonder where they will be in five, ten, fifteen years. Remember when the local gas station would not work on imported cars because they did not have the tools?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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As a matter of fact, no, and I worked in the place in '53 and '54 and some of '55. Mostly SAE, but also Whitworth (Brit motorcycles mainly), and some metric on the few VWs, MGs and Jags we saw--and we probably saw more than most areas, along with BSAs, AJSs, Nortons, Triumphs and similar wonders of the dying headlight/oil leaking art.
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Uh, not quite. I seldom agree with Doug, but on this point, I wonder: the U.S. is the world's largest customer, yet we're being told we HAVE to accept a different measurement standard. When I want to sell an article or a book, I'm the one facing the "have to" parts of the deal. The customer may or may not be right, but he is the guy paying the money.
Of course, we could all be like the hotshot CEO of Mattel who apologized to the Chinese for not telling them that lead paint in children's toys was a bad idea. In that case, we've become too large a customer, so that the seller swings the cat by the tail and U.S. buyers, on any scale, get to duck.
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I'm in England and we use imperial and metric, I also have a house in France where they have no comprehension of imperial lengths, weights or volumes.
We co-exist with both; it's no big deal. My son is 20 years old and has only been taught metric at school and Uni, but if you ask him how tall and how much he weighs, he will tell you "6 3 and a half and 15 stone" (we don't use pounds to describe body weight).
Now the French being French, like to be different when it comes to using metric. When I've been working on my place in France with a French builder, he will use centimeters rather than millimeters. So a measurement of 65 becomes 6.5 and when I ask, "is that meters" he says "no it's centimeters". A 18mm thick sheet of ply becomes 1.8 thick and 9mm (3/8") plaster board is point 9.
This can become quite confusing when working together- fitting out a kitchen or plaster boarding a room and on top of that I'm also translating the language at the same time.
I'd rather use metric, imperial is illogical when measuring or planning a structure. However, because of my age and education, I still can't help thinking in feet and inches initially.
People will always disagree, that's just the way it is.
Cheers,
Chris
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On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:59:40 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.net wrote:

I can relate... We moved to Mexico a year ago and we're still not sure how much gas is (I think it's about $2.25 a gallon) or which measurement to expect..
The AC and heaters are in Celsius, the cistern is in gallons, the house plans were in feet, the windows are imperial and the screens are metric.. The stove is in C. and the frig is in F degrees.. lol It would be nice to have just one measurement, whichever they use..
Oh.. we're in the process of cementing the carport so my tools roll better and the re-bar and wire were imperial and the cement mixers are in metric volume..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
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I question this oft quoted yet misapplied analogy. If you grab a 10mm socket and it's too small what do you do? You try to figure out if it's one size, two sizes or whatever, too small. You don't really care about 11 or 12 or 22 for that matter. Same with fractional measurements. If 1/2 does not fit, then is it one or two or 5 sizes off? The number written on the wrench is totally meaningless. In fact, you can intemix your metric and your ASE sockets with equal results in attempting to find the right "bigger" socket. It has nothing at all to do with the numbering scheme and the numbering scheme has nothing at all to do with ease of use or anything else except foolish attempts at bragging rights for a "superior" system. Rubbish.

Preach it brotha!

What? Blasphemy! Woodworkers the world over work hard to learn these fractions to sound knowledgeable. And you want to reduce this secret language to the level of the common layman? Balderdash!
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Not saying the reasoning is good or bad, but put the following in sequence by size:
13, 11, 12
29/64, 7/16, 9/32
Most experienced mechanics know by looking at a bolt head what to reach for right off, but to the Saturday mechanic, it can be confusing.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I recognize every inch bolt/nut from 1/4" to 1"+ by sight but I'll be damned if I can _yet_ tell the difference between adjacent 1-mm sizes in the 10-12 range. And the designers just seem hellbent to use every daggone one of them in random profusion---it's my biggest complaint about metric in general use although everything, even the Deere now is almost universally metric...
--
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Not really, at least not if you go to Europe. When I still used to stick my head under the bonnets of Fiats, VWs and whatever virtually all the bolt heads and nuts were 10-13-17; the bolts being 6mm, 8mm and 10mm respectively - it took the Japanese to confuse the issue and start using 12mm, 14mm and what have you ( I presume to save on steel but I am guessing there).
-P
--
=========================================
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Peter Huebner wrote:

I only work on what is here... :)
--
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With the right mindset, it doesn't have to be.
Suboptimal mindset: "Hmmm, bolt head looks like about a 9/16..." [look through rack for 9/16 socket] "Nope, too big, guess I'd better go to 1/2..."
More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what fits.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
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Shit... you beat me to it.
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Shifted nyms, I see.
<plonk> again.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Oct 13, 5:44 pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I wasn't talking to you, asshole!
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Did I *really* need to specify "repeat as needed until the proper size is found"?? I thought that went without saying, but apparently I was mistaken. The point is, use the socket that's the right size, and never mind what numbers are etched on the side of it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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That is a given.
Since the eyes are not what they used to be, it is damn near impossible to read the socket size etched in the side.
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LOL -- I know exactly what you mean!
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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