your thoughts on metric

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There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for our money, we use it for some beverages.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
| There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are | plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days | and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for | our money, we use it for some beverages.
I'd like to agree, but can't. I came up with a gizmo (photos at link below) that allows ShopBot users to zero all three axes to a jig or workpiece in less than a minute and a bunch of guys wanted 'em for their shops. The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be cool to go metric...
Ok - I needed aluminum bar stock at _least_ 3/8" thick (1/2" would be better) and went to the catalog. No metric stock available - so ordered 1/2" x 6" x 72". Shrug.
Now I needed smaller stock thicker than 1/16" and wider than 1/2". Back to the catalog for 1/8" x 3/4" x 72". Shrug again. Told myself it wasn't a big deal, that no one would care what the actual measurements of these parts was, so system wasn't important.
Then I needed button head cap screws to attach the thin pieces to the edges of the thick one. Hmm - M5 x .8 x 12 (3mm key) are $14.27/C and #10-32 x 1/2 (1/8 key) are $7.76/C. At this point my enthusiasm for metric was beginning to fade a bit.
So I flipped to Allen wrenches. 3 mm hex keys were listed at $11.95/C and 1/8" hex keys were listed at $5.85/C. (I wrote 'em down)
On to spiral-flute bottoming taps - a #10-32 was listed at $8.20 and an M5 x .8 was $13.45 - I only needed two (I've learned never to order just one of a given tap size because that's /inviting/ Murphy to the party.)
I already have a set of fractional, numbered, and letter size drills (#10-32 needs a #21 drill for the tapped hole and a #9 for clearance hole) from Harbor Fright. I turned to look up the price on a but for an M5 tapped hole and realized that my handy char didn't provide any info as to what size bit I needed for /any/ metric tapped hole.
Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last time, and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.
Would you have done differently?
(The software that goes with the gizmo has been written to automatically set itself up wo work in either inches or mm at runtime - I figured that I owed my metric friend at least that much consideration.)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/SuperZero.html
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"Morris Dovey" wrote:

<snip a list of US v metric price comparisons>

I would have given the customer a choice along with the respective prices.
It becomes his choice.
He may have some very good reasons for needing metric.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote: | "Morris Dovey" wrote: | || The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be || cool to go metric... | | <snip a list of US v metric price comparisons> | || Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last || time, and picked up the phone to order everything in inches. | || Would you have done differently? | | I would have given the customer a choice along with the respective | prices. | | It becomes his choice. | | He may have some very good reasons for needing metric.
Perhaps, but he didn't tell me that he needed a device built with metric components. When I asked, he told me that his machine was normally set up to work in mm - which is what prompted me to make the software self-adjust at runtime.
He did get one other (unasked-for) consideration: because his location isn't far from salt water, the screws and probes that are part of the sets are all 18-8 stainless.
It'll still do exactly the job he wants it to do.
My point to Ed is that there's a significant cost disadvantage for Americans attempting to produce metric products in the USA.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is readily available outside the US and some places here but not very plentiful. If we made the switch universally, your problem would not exist. You made a good point as to why we should change to be compatible in a world economy.
In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so everything is metric. Simple to work with.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
| The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is | readily available outside the US and some places here but not very | plentiful. If we made the switch universally, your problem would | not exist. You made a good point as to why we should change to be | compatible in a world economy.
"Available outside the US" doesn't do much for me here in Iowa. :-(
If we made the switch universally, I'd have to replace more stuff in my shop than I'd be comfortable with - and I don't even want to think about reworking all my drawings, product specifications, part program software, and bills of materials. Even for a small operation like mine, it'd be difficult and expensive.
| In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so | everything is metric. Simple to work with.
Hmm. [ light bulb just went on ] I could solve all my difficulties by outsourcing everything to some place where everything is metric. Simple indeed. <eg>
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Edwin, are _you_ going to buy me a new planer, new saw fences, a full set of twist, brad point, and Forstner bits, new wrenches and sockets, new tape measures and rulers, and redimension all my drawings? If not, are you going to pay me the the cost of all of this? If not, then why should I be in favor of something that puts me out of pocket a quite large amount of money and confers to me no benefit that I can discern.
--
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--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

Saws, planers, and other stuff can care less about units. At worst, it's a new decal.
Most of us already have metric sockets, as even my Jeep Wrangler has metric bolts.
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B A R R Y wrote:

So are you going to make these decals and give them to me?
And on the planer, the thickness screw is calibrated in inches--a full turn of the screw will never work out to any even number of millimeters unless you replace the screw with one that has a different thread pitch.

So?
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So tell me, exactly, why you need a new planer and saw fences? Mine not only do metric, they do Witworth too.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Mine don't. At least not unless I take a meter stick to them or set the thickness by trial and error.
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--John
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Abnd your Swedish customer better not ever have to replace any of the screws.
/Par
--
Par snipped-for-privacy@hunter-gatherer.org
Cooking without animal products is like doing sysadmin work without vi.
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What you need is a new supplier. Check McMaster prices $7.16
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

So what? What are the valid reason to NOT use the system we're already using? If you want people to change their behavior you have to give them a reason to do so, not simply tell them that there's no reason not to.

Why would one wonder that after "using it steady for a few days"?
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I don't really give a damn if people change or not. It is just that there is no valid reason to say one system is superior if both can get it done, making no valid reason NOT to use it.

Because those closed minded individuals that think it is a bad system will find that is not so bad, it is simple to use, and makes us compatible with the rest of the world. Many people are afraid of change and fear having to learn something new. After a couple of days you will have learned it an be able to estimate how many meters a room dimension is.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote: ...

...
I contend comfort and familiarity _is_ a valid reason to retain it for everyday activities...

Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350 sq-ft... :)
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So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those big 67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Wouldn't that be 3.8 l? :)
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Could be, but you said "about" leaving room for either to do that 32.5 square meters.
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dpb wrote:

Would that be an Imperial gallon or US gallon?
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