yet another sharpening question

[Mark Wells]

I'm one of the "guilty", obsessing about sharpening on this group. That doesn't mean I know everything, just that I'm trying to record what I've learned (so far).

I found that the 3M microabrasive paper with a baby oil lubricant lasts a lot longer than the paper I got at the automotive store. You can get a 15, 5, and .3 micron w/ PSA backing from

for $11.55. Before you give up on sandpaper, you might want to give that a shot before investing in stones.

If you are the type that likes to read about sharpening with sandpaper, check this out:

I think Beach provides a lot of good, scientific, information.

Mark

[Prometheus]

One of these days, I am going to have to take a vacation and visit those folks- sounds like a thing to see. They've got quite a reputation amongst blacksmiths as well, from what I gather.

Not so much of a divergence as you might think- I don't toss out old tools, but I generally buy new as well. Except for the cases where I make my own- but those are new as well, of course! It's not so much a matter of taking the time to restore them as it is taking the time (and getting up when it is essentially "the middle of the night" for me) to go to antique shops or auctions where such things might be found.

Exactly my point. Well, at least there are a few guys that haven't totally lost if over the idea of sharpening!

[J T]

Sun, Feb 4, 2007, 10:03am (EST-3) [e-mail] (charlie=A0b) doth sayeth: Every once in a while I pop in a Tage Frid video and watch him =A0 use an upside down belt sander, probably with an 80 grit belt =A0 in it, to sharpen his chisel. A few seconds of flying sparks =A0 and that Put You Teeth On Edge noise and he's back to chiseling =A0 dovetails - or whatever.

I'm always kinda fascinated by him. I sharpen my chisels, lathe tools, and knives, on my little bench belt sander. Way I see it, any time I use them, the angle I use 'em at is constantly changing, so the angle on them are probably just not that important - a case of "close enough, is good enough".. Works for me, and I like it a lot more than using a grinder.

Plane blades on the other hand, I figure need to have the angle as precise as reasonably possible, because they are used at set angles only. So, for plane blades I would definitely use a jig, and probably Scary Sharp (TM).

JOAT Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily.

- Johann Von Schiller

[J T]

Sun, Feb 4, 2007, 1:09pm .@. (Stoutman) doth sayeth: I only go to a billion grit (See Lee Valley for billion/trillion grit combo water stone) when making pukey ducks. Everything else gets less attention.

And the Woodworking Gods love you for having your priorities right.

JOAT Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily.

- Johann Von Schiller

[John Grossbohlin]

CW is a great place to visit... It is important to note though that you will get out of it what you put into it... if you go as a passive observer it isn't nearly as interesting as if you go as an active participant. There are a tremendous number of experiences to be had there if you seek them out.

RE the blacksmith shop, Peter Ross and Ken Schwartz have done a fine job with the shop. They make some pretty neat stuff there and it's always exciting to watch forge welding. BTW, Roy and his carpenters built the blacksmith shop building.

John

[DanG]

I'm kinda old school too. I did break down and buy a coarse grit diamond for when things need it. 2 sided India stone. Light Arkansas. Leather with rouge. I have a black Arkansas, but I don't have the patience to use it. I can hurt myself, shave hair off my arm, scrape glue, make shavings, and chop out mortises with what I have and see no reason for a mirror finish that I will just abuse.

[Prometheus]

I'm sure I'll be unable to resist trying to get my hands dirty when I make it there some day. I'll have to talk with the wife about it, and see if we can make some time for that this year.

Forge welding *is* awfully neat- that's on the agenda for my next blacksmithing lesson, and I'm really looking forward to it. Too bad I can't try it out in advance- but the ambient air is just too cold for my propane forge to get hot enough during the winter unless I figure out a way to preheat the air before it hits the blower.

The other thing that is awfully interesting (though it may not sound like it) is making nails. The fella that is teaching me showed me how to do that last time, as practice until my next lesson and it's a pretty neat process. I don't figure I'll be using them for building structures anytime soon, but I might make a rustic-looking box or two with some of my handmade nails.

Hopefully by next winter, I'll have a coal forge for doing that sort of thing when it's this cold- provided I can make that happen without covering the neighbors' houses in soot, that is!

[John Grossbohlin]

I wonder if a sheet metal hood around the forge might be enough?

I tried my hand at that... I shared an apartment with one of the blacksmiths for a while and he let me try it one day while I was at the blacksmith shop.

I did some forge work while at CW while working at the gunsmith shop... helped forge and weld rifle barrels, and forged small parts like patch box springs, trigger plates, etc. Cold wasn't a problem. Forge welding when it's

90+ degree and 90%+ humidity on a coal forge is the hottest dirtiest work I ever did. Glad I had the chance!

Blacksmithing is pretty neat but does demand a separate work area and unless you live in isolation you generally cannot do it early in the morning or late at night. I remember when I was a kid that the old guy across the street from us used to forge items. As a child in Poland he was apprenticed as a blacksmith. He came to the U.S. after WWII and went to work in auto body shops hammering cars back into shape. When he died his wife sold the farm and gave our family his anvil. Unfortunately, I was a kid and didn't know enough to grab the tongs, hardies, hammers, etc. The scrap dealer got it all... My father still has the anvil.

John

[Mark Wells]

Lee Valley now laps their plane blades. Read the "tech" link on this page:

[Leuf]

-Leuf

[Prometheus]

I've been thinking about that- it seems like it could work. I also read about a guy who was speculating about putting another layer of metal around the outside of the forge and ducting it to the fan. While the Kaowool I used to line it is good, it's not so good that it keeps every degree of the 2200*F+ temp inside the forge, and it may as well be reused somehow. Only concern was that trapping the heat might cause the primary forge body to melt or warp.

Nope- cold is definately not a problem when it comes to comfort! Just need to preheat the air flow with in a gas rig if you want to weld. I got it to welding heat when it was 40* outside, but subzero is just too chilly to be blowing into my blast chamber.

I am kind of lucky in my situation- my wood shop is in the basement, so the garage is free for blacksmithing, and the garage is underground, so the sound does not carry much, if at all. At least, no one has said anything about me banging on steel at 3am *yet*!

[Tanus]

I have one. It is wonderful. Flattens the stone easily and does a nice job.

Tanus

[B A R R Y]

I use XC/C/F/XF diamond plates (2 plates, double sided) and 4000 and

8000 grit waterstones.

The diamond plates flatten the waterstones nicely. There's also nothing to soak. The plates and fine stones simply need a spritz.