Yet another electrical question on a WW tool

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On 10/14/2013 7:50 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

is the same reason it should not be used in shops for other motors (a compressor at its guts is a motor), not for the food spoilage, but more because of possible leakage.
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On 10/15/2013 12:41 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:

Compressor, tablesaw, drill press, bandsaw, jointer, 2 stationary sanders, planer, router table, shop vacs.
Nothing pops the gfci. Occasionaly I pop a ckt breaker when starting the ts..
I think the refrig is to prevent lost food, and spoiling. But our hardware should be sound... and it is better to have it, than not. Long ago they didn't have them... I'm sure there were occaisonal electrocutions. I have been to many garage sales, I can't believe how some guys keep their equip or work with frayed wires or just not well maintained cords/boxes,switches. A gfci is cheap insurance.
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Jeff

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wrote:

Right, but that's because the inductive Power Factor causes the GFCI to falsely detect a ground fault. The same happens with a large motor.

I doubt there were many such electrocutions (dry basement) but it's not a big issue.
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OK this is an update on my issue:
Came home from work and tried the jointer again on the original circuit. ( Some times things heal themselves.) Ran for about 4 minutes and popped the GFCI. Tried a third GFCI circuit and it popped right away.
At work today I called an EE and asked him about the NEC. He said that the code said that in an un-finished basement used for storage or work, the ou tlets needed to be protected by a GFCI. I guess all I have to do is finish the basement and I won't need no stinkin' GFCI.
OK, back to the problem. Connected the jointer to a non GFCI circuit and i t ran OK for about 10-15 minutes (no load).
Here's my plan.
1. I'm gonna pull the motor out although it's a real pain to get to becau se I really want to check carefully for dust build-up. Also, I want to see if 220VAC is a possibility.
2. I'm gonna get a brand new, 20A GFCI outlet for that circuit.
3. If the trouble persists, I'm gonna run a dedicated 20A line (non-GFCI) to the jointer and get on with my life.
I may skip step 2. Got to think on it more.
Thanks for all the responses, especially since it was only marginally a WW topic. I love this group.
Bill Leonhardt ____________________________________________________________________ On Monday, October 14, 2013 7:50:23 PM UTC-4, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

th 12 gauge wire. Each circuit starts with a GFCI outlet and then a chain of normal outlets. All outlets are 20 amp.

the GFCI outlet, I connected the jointer to the second circuit. Same prob lem. The only other piece of equipment running was the DC which is on a se parate 240VAC circuit.

is connected to my DC.

he leftover maple.

jointer new 8 or 9 years ago and it has been lightly used.

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Bill Leonhardt wrote:

To those "in the know". If there is "leakage" like this, does it mean that their might be risk of shock to the user or fire (from overheating?). Just curious. I've already picked up a new question I've saving for I look at used equipment for sale: "Yes, But will it run on a GFCI-protected circuit?" : )

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On 10/15/2013 7:38 PM, Bill wrote: ...

Theoretically (that's why the GFCI limit is set so low), yes, 4-5 mA directly across the heart region is enough to be fatal. But, to get that means you've got be be holding onto the side that is hot with one hand and have the other on a solid ground so the path is through you and the entire leakage current of that magnitude is through you.
So possible, yes; at all likely really not, especially in absence of water or other way to get a solid ground. For pool equipment, other wet areas like shavers, etc., around bath sinks, etc., and as I mentioned before, heaters for livestock waterers and so on where there is a pretty good chance that you could get the ground they've a purpose but for the general shop area as a general rule they're really overdoing it imo.
It is not an overcurrent protection issue at all; that's what the regular circuit breaker is for.
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wrote:

Highly unlikely, though possible. Older GFCIs weren't very good at rejecting stray (capacitive or inductive) current paths. The possibility of false trips with these is high. This is why there were exceptions in the NEC for refrigerators/freezers. Replace the GFCI and see if your problem goes away. If it does, then you had nothing to worry about. ;-)

With a new GFCI, there should be fewer problems. ...and those are serious.
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Risk of shock, potentially fatal. The amount of current which can stop your heart, or send it into atrial fibrillation, is astonishingly low, somewhere on the order of 20 to 50 mA.

Likely answer: "Beats me, I never tried." If you're concerned about it, buy an extension cord with a built-in GFCI (or make one -- I can show you how) and take it with you when you're shopping.
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On 10/15/2013 6:48 PM, Bill Leonhardt wrote:

That should have been your very first troubleshooting act, more than likely saving you a good deal of time, money and typing.
If it doesn't solve the problem, then it isolates the problem to somewhere from the plug, to the motor on the tool itself.
> I may skip step 2. Got to think on it more.
Think no further.
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"Bill Leonhardt" wrote:
OK this is an update on my issue:
Came home from work and tried the jointer again on the original circuit. (Some times things heal themselves.) Ran for about 4 minutes and popped the GFCI. Tried a third GFCI circuit and it popped right away.
At work today I called an EE and asked him about the NEC. He said that the code said that in an un-finished basement used for storage or work, the outlets needed to be protected by a GFCI. I guess all I have to do is finish the basement and I won't need no stinkin' GFCI.
OK, back to the problem. Connected the jointer to a non GFCI circuit and it ran OK for about 10-15 minutes (no load).
Here's my plan.
1. I'm gonna pull the motor out although it's a real pain to get to because I really want to check carefully for dust build-up. Also, I want to see if 220VAC is a possibility.
2. I'm gonna get a brand new, 20A GFCI outlet for that circuit.
3. If the trouble persists, I'm gonna run a dedicated 20A line (non-GFCI) to the jointer and get on with my life.
I may skip step 2. Got to think on it more. ---------------------------------------------------------- Based on the above, the first thing I would do is verify whether motor can be wired for 240V.
If so, problem is solved.
Rewire and move on.
If not, then assuming you don't already have one, get a 50 ft, 10-3 molded cord set and use it to plug jointer into non GFCI receptacle and get on with life.
Why a 10-3 rather than a less expensive 12-3?
Less voltage drop at the motor terminals.
Last choice would be to replace GFCI receptacle.
BTW, a coat of paint on the walls could be called "Finished" in some parts of the country.
Have fun.
Lew
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On 10/16/2013 11:25 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

when inspected we talked about them, they had to be on each ckt.

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woodchucker wrote:

You can also buy a GFCI circuit breaker for about $90, or so--which may outweigh installing multiple GFCI duplex outlets--your call. It would depend on how many you have, I guess.

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On 10/16/2013 06:19 PM, Bill wrote:

like a GFCI breaker for the entire circuit. No need for GFCIs on each outlet.
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Doug Winterburn wrote:

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wrote:

Make sure you get them in the right way 'round. They don't work well the other way. DAMHIKT. :-(
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On 10/16/2013 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:

Would rather use the outlet type, cheap enough to replace.

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wrote:

They also tend to be closer to where you're working, which shouldn't be important but too often is. In a previous house, we had one GFCI breaker for the three bathrooms (and outside outlets). It wasn't very convenient to have to step out of the shower and walk out onto the front porch to reset the GFCI.
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On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 21:14:07 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

The neighbors didn't like it much either. ;-)
OK, I'll help you get your mind off that image:
It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small world after all It's a small, small world
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On 10/18/2013 11:24 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Thanks, but I prefer "Tiptoe, through the tulips".
Much more power, in one line.
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On 10/18/2013 11:30 AM, Swingman wrote:

Who let the dogs out? Wolf, Wolf Wolf
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