Yellow glue or ??? for Adirondack chair?

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Prof Wonmug" wrote:

Harbor Freight is your friend when it comes to consumables like latex surgical gloves.
Lew
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On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:30:50 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

I put two ribbons of epoxy in a dish, mixed a bit, and added a splash of denatured alcohol. As far as I could tell, this did not affect the epoxy mixture at all. It was just as thick as before.
I applied one coat to the two pieces. as far as I could tell, it did not penetrate at all. It certainly did not disappear.
Now, I am reluctant to apply 2-3 coats of fear of getting too much build-up and losing the nice fit from the clean (ragged) break.
I think I'll just apply it full strength and clamp.
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"Prof Wonmug" wrote:

Go for it.
Lew
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Prof Wonmug wrote:

I wasn't going to say anything because Lew appears to know more about epoxy than most other humans, but I didn't think the alcohol thing was going to work. System Three T-88 appears to be a bit of a different animal relative to most other epoxies. The "clean up with white vinegar" thing puzzled me right away; nothing short of lacquer thinner or acetone would touch most of the other brands I've used.
--
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"Steve Turner" wrote:

Have no direct experience with T-88; however, have used several thousand pounds of S-3 laminating resin.
From the sounds of it, appears T-88 is loaded with some type of filler(s) which would mean getting the alcohol absorbed into the mix may require a lot of elbow grease.
As far as clean up is concerned, nothing short of stripping down and taking as cold a shower as you can tolerate has ever worked for me.
Solvents such as lacquer thinner, acetone, white vinegar, etc, never worked very well for me.
A scrub brush with Boraxo and cold water gets off the heavy stuff until you hit the shower.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

I wouldn't expect any solvent that was meant to thin any given resin to require *any* elbow grease, filler or no; I would expect it to melt right in. I figure if it ain't gonna dissolve the resin then you shouldn't use it, and it wouldn't surprise me if the mixture wound up coagulating.

Well I wasn't so much talking about getting it off *me* as I was getting it off everything else, but apart from the T-88, every other brand I've used in the past (and the few I have lying around here right now) mention lacquer thinner and/or acetone for cleanup and it's always worked for me. Even from my skin(!), but I don't like to make a habit of that. I suspect those solvents might be worse for your skin than the epoxy itself, although acetone has been a common ingredient in finger nail polish remover for eons.
--
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"Steve Turner" wrote:

SFWIW, today most nail polish removers are NOT acetone based.
As far as getting any of the ketone solvents on your skin, it is strongly suggested you don't, but as you say, small quantities probably don't hurt.
As far as uncured epoxy is concerned, you build up a sensitivity to the stuff over time, then you wake up one day with a skin rash and you are done working with epoxy.
A $5 box of latex surgical gloves from Harbor Freight solves a lot of problems when working with epoxy.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Perhaps, but I live in a house with a wife and four daughters. There are like 17 bottles of the crap around here (two of them brand new) and they all have acetone as the primary ingredient.
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"Steve Turner" wrote

LOL Do you need to take an anti estrogen? LOL
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Lee Michaels wrote:

You got that right - it's called run out to the shop and hide! :-)
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"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
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Epoxy putty is different from epoxy resin.Epoxy resin CAN be thinned with alcohol or acetone but the ultimate strength can be compromised. Don't think you can thin epoxy putty very easily, but I could be wrong.
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T-88 is listed as a structural adhesive on the SO-3 web site which as you say makes it a different animal from laminating resin.
I've always used laminating resin as a "glue" or thickened with micro-balloons as an "adhesive" with success, but then again, different horses for different courses.
Lew .
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Contacted S-3 tech support and asked about T-88 for this application.
Took a couple of e-mails to get everybody on sasme page, but we got there.
Below is the e-mail exchange with tech support for those who are interested.
Lew ======================================================To: System Three Resins, Inc. Technical Support www.systemthree.com
From: Lew Hodgett Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:04 AM
RE: T-88
Can you thin T-88 with denatured alcohol (5% max) to aid in penetration of say old wood?
Lew ========================================================From: "Technical Support" www.systemthree.com Monday, September 21, 2009
To: "Lew Hodgett"
You can thin T-88 with lacquer thinner for coating. But, it is a lousy product for this because the viscosity is too high and the molecule is too big.
A far better product is Clear Coat epoxy. ========================================================From: Lew Hodgett Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:48 PM
To: System Three Resins, Inc. Technical Support www.systemthree.com
Maybe I didn't make myself clear.
This is a structrual application on an old redwood lawn chair.
Simply wanted to reduce the viscosity of T-88 for the inital coat to improve penetration of the wood fibers, then follow up with full strength T-88 to complete the broken joint repair.
Good or bad idea?
Lew ========================================================From: "Technical Support" www.systemthree.com Monday, September 21, 2009
To: "Lew Hodgett" Date: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:01 PM
We think that doing what you suggest is not necessary.
If you do it you'll have to wait at least three to four days for all the solvent to evaporate.
Then you'll have to sand the remaining epoxy.
Tests that we've done over the years show that almost no matter what technique you use the wood breaks before the epoxy.
If you like apply a coat of T-88, wait a couple of hours and then apply more and close the joint this will approximate what you propose without all the time and work. ========================================================
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On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:45:36 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

Interesting exchange. Thanks for going to the trouble to check it out and post back.
It looks like I did almost exactly what they suggested, albeit without knowing what I was doing. I *tried* to dilute it with alcohol. When that failed, I just applied it anyway, waited about an hour, and applied it full strength.
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I do have one more question.
While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to reinforce them.
The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space. I'm thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it does eventually give way.
I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage as it happens.
Comments?
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"Prof Wonmug" wrote:

You indicated that this chair is held together with fasteners.
One approach would be to get #10-#12 coarse threaded pan head stainless steel self tapping sheet metal screws and replace old fasteners one for one.
Self tapping sheet metal screws do well in soft woods like redwood.
YMMV
Lew
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On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:46:53 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

It is held together with standard wood screws, countersunk, and plugged. I would have to drill out the plugs, remove the screws (that part would be easy, I imagine), reattach with the new screws, and then make new plugs. That sounds like a lot of work.
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Prof Wonmug" wrote:

Depends on how much the chair means to you/yours.
Lew
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Dissassemble completey and use as pattern to make new parts over the winter. If there is a real "attachment" to the old one you could repair the holes while it is apart and re-assemble it along with the new one (or 2, or 3, or)
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I've done that many times; practically every chair repair I've ever done I've resorted to complete (or near complete) disassembly. It's like a slippery slope with me; I can't stand loose joints in a chair. I'd much rather take it all apart and do it right than attempt some kind of glue injection approach, and having it all apart makes it easy to make patterns for fresh new builds.
--
If it ain't perfect, improve it...
But don't break it while you're fixin' it!
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